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"Shame tends to result in submitting and appeasing?" Not always. Submitting and appeasing are/can be adaptive measures. Fighting back is a reflex from terror. Not necessarily anger. Absolutely. My repressed memories literally saved my sanity. Yes! Depending on your sadistic abusers madness...

How do you? How does anyone? None of us are certain. Each of us go on faith. :) I find it ironic everyone basically believes in the same thing. Peace and good will.

@Hashi, I don't agree either. I thought you might find the rest of the article helpful in understanding her viewpoint.

Happy :)

You're welcome! Thank you! He didn't tell me anything. He gave me life. He gave me free will. Free to choose between good and evil. He provides a beautiful planet full of life to experience love happiness and joy. It is the true human experience. I will give back in love happiness and joy...

Great thread @Muzikluvr! I see your view as seeing a oneness. We have evolved from space dust. The universe/God/Allah/Buddaha or the cows that came home...LOL has allowed us to evolve into having the ability to speak. Hence,humans. And look at us...everyone wishes to argue. Someday humanity will...

We live in a blind eye culture. A culture in denial willing to turn a blind eye and blame victims. Blaming the victim is a dysfunctional defense mech giving society a dysfunctional ability to ignore harsh realities. Rape is considered a fact of life. "It happens" nonsense. Yeah..it does...

You just described heaven.

In my case..PTS.........D LOL is a normal response to psychopaths freely roaming in a society who doesn't understand them. My concerns are reality based.

Anyone and everyone at some point will dissociate. People do it all the time by simply turning up the radio. That is healthy dissociation. Pregnant women cope by dissociating during childbirth. Hence, easing the fear and pain. Traumatized children cope the same way. Pain is fear. Shame is fear...

The important point is we do not dissociate due to shame. Hence,dissociation cannot be a method of defending against the overwhelming pain of shame.

No. It was not directed at you nor was I implying you were suggesting rape is shameful. IMO it would be more productive to discuss how shame motivates abusers to abuse. This thread has been interesting. I am seeing more responses as to why certain trauma survivors feel shame and are having...

Yes. Rule number one. I/we KNOW/UNDERSTAND it isn't our shame to begin with! :)

Absolutely agree. I was the slave in my family. I complied to save myself from more physical abuse. Whatever it takes to shut them up. I have used poison ivy as a defense mech. LOL I am highly allergic to poison ivy. My siblings delightfully rolled me down in ivy patches. Many summers I was...

LOL Grammar is so easy too. Some people just don't care. LOL!!! ~Justmehere edited her post hence making mine appear incoherent. No matter. I am sure she still understands the joke!!!

@Justmehere I googled the OP's orginial quote and found the article she quoted. I posted it for Hashi. Clearly based on grammer alone I didn't write it! LOL As well as I don't fully agree on the article itself. :)

Inadequacy of inner self? No. Are you aware women dissociate during childbirth? Why? Unbearable pain. And there is absolutely nothing inadequate about a woman giving birth. :) Dissociation is a natural defense to preserve life. I dissociated from the terror I was forced to endure. No shame...

Absolutely. My repressed memories literally saved my sanity.

A Place for Shame in Betrayal Trauma Theory? by Melissa Platt, MS, University of Oregon According to Jennifer Freyd’s betrayal trauma theory victims of traumatic events involving betrayal by a close other are more likely to forget the abuse compared to victims of events perpetrated by...

Great thread. :) Oh my! You didn't fail ghotiff! You were out numbered. You were surrounded by violent people.You couldn't protect yourself. That is not your fault. You did the best you could. Consider the Jews. Do you believe they felt shame for being Jewish? No. Consider the many innocent...

As a child it was impossible to effectively fight or flee. I completely understood I had zero control. I learned to appease my abusers. Feel their shame? Yes. I felt their shame every time they abused me. Shame in my heart? No.

Excellent idea! Rule number one. Don't get angry. :)

You bring up a good point. I was considering one called..Shameless Scapegoats Unite. Mission statement: Save humanity! LOL Most scapegoats I know have a sense of humor..it comes with the job!

My weight perplexes even me. It hasn't changed in 35+ yrs. At least I'm consistent???!! LOL

Let your light shine Gismo!! Validation comes from the very depths of your soul. You validate yourself through self love. The knowing you didn't deserve the abuse you endured. There are evil people in this world who want you to live/feel their detestable lives. They want to steal your joy...