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The Purpose Of 'shame'

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I'm curious as to what chain of logic led you to believe that while humans regularly dissociate from pain, they would not do so from the pain of shame, for some reason.

Anyone and everyone at some point will dissociate. People do it all the time by simply turning up the radio. That is healthy dissociation. Pregnant women cope by dissociating during childbirth. Hence, easing the fear and pain. Traumatized children cope the same way. Pain is fear. Shame is fear. If anything..shame hinders healing. Every traumatized individual out there must shed the notion of shame to successfully heal. Therapist make a lot of money off shame!

My family shamelessly abused me and my siblings. My siblings chose to continue the cycle of abuse.

I am shamelessly unashamed of the abuse I was forced to endure. That my friend is healthy. :)
 
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I'm afraid I can't follow this. It doesn't say what the perpetrator is a perpetrator of. What is the victim being as safe as possible from? Violence? Emotional abuse? Something else?
I agree with @fyredrift23.
What exactly is a "caregiving" response from an abuser?

Melissa Platt said:
It is also possible that feeling ashamed of oneself plays a protective function in close relationships characterized by abuse. For example, if a parent emotionally, physically, or sexually assaults a child, the child may feel ashamed of herself instead of feeling angry at or afraid of the abuser. Researchers such as Dacher Keltner have found that whereas anger often results in fighting and fear often results in fleeing, shame tends to result in submitting and appeasing. Thus, the expression of shame has the potential to elicit a caregiving response from the perpetrator which could ultimately keep the victim as safe as possible within an unsafe situation. In a study of Olympic and Paralympic athletes, Jessica Tracy and David Matsumoto found that the slumped posture and downward gaze associated with shame occur cross-culturally. A variety of factors influence the tendency to respond to a stressor with the bodily expression and/or internal experience of shame. For example, Jennifer Freyd and I have found that for some survivors, the presence of an all-or-nothing thinking style (e.g., “If I am not perfect, I am worthless”) may contribute to the tendency to readily experience shame.

@Hashi, I don't agree either. I thought you might find the rest of the article helpful in understanding her viewpoint.
 
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My concerns are reality based.

I've been following this thread with great interest. Can you illuminate your statement, above? I think it is meant to tie to this part of your post:

[PTSD] is a normal response to psychopaths freely roaming in a society who doesn't understand them.

But I am unclear.

Shame is a very real issue for me, and I'd like to follow what you mean by "reality-based".
 
This is a personal perspective and I completely respect that not everyone will agree.

I have come to believe that my feelings of 'shame' came not from my abusers/traumas but from the other people around me (the betrayers). The people who I told of my problems (both during the abuse period, and after) and their response (lack of interest and no action or help) told me that that in being open about my problems (or maybe even having them in the first place) I was failing to follow social expectations and thus felt shame.

Shame is an integral emotion of relationships, it gives us negative feedback when we fail to connect in relationships or fail to follow social norms and expectations
 
Melissa Platt said:
Researchers such as Dacher Keltner have found that whereas anger often results in fighting and fear often results in fleeing, shame tends to result in submitting and appeasing.

"Shame tends to result in submitting and appeasing?" Not always. Submitting and appeasing are/can be adaptive measures. Fighting back is a reflex from terror. Not necessarily anger.

Melissa Platt said:
According to Jennifer Freyd’s betrayal trauma theory victims of traumatic events involving betrayal by a close other are more likely to forget the abuse compared to victims of events perpetrated by strangers. They are also more likely to dissociate from awareness of the abuse. That is, they may disconnect from their own thoughts, feelings, or behaviors related to the abusive events. Not knowing about the abuse can help the victim to maintain a relationship with the perpetrator.

Absolutely. My repressed memories literally saved my sanity.

Melissa Platt said:
It is possible that shame and dissociation are two separate methods of protecting a relationship with a perpetrator who is depended-upon,

Yes! Depending on your sadistic abusers madness expressing shame can be considered adaptive.

Melissa Platt said:
or it is possible that shame and dissociation work together to facilitate survival. The most broadly accepted theory attempting to explain the relationship between shame and dissociation posits that dissociation is a method of defending against the overwhelming pain of shame. This theory has been adopted by shame scholars Donald Nathansan and Michael Lewis.

Dissociation prevents you from feeling shame!
 
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Dissociation prevents you from feeling shame!
If one dissociates to the point of losing time, does this mean the event (as far as the brain is concerned) never happened. If it 'never happened' (from the brains viewpoint) then it would very effectively protect you from shame or any other reaction. I would also assume if this was true, then these 'memories' could never be recovered because they 'never happened'.

Does anyone know if the above is true?
 
I have come to believe that my feelings of 'shame' came not from my abusers/traumas but from the other people around me (the betrayers). The people who I told of my problems (both during the abuse period, and after) and their response (lack of interest and no action or help) told me that that in being open about my problems (or maybe even having them in the first place) I was failing to follow social expectations and thus felt shame.
This is what I see as a 'secondary wounding' effect that often happens to trauma survivors, we end up being actively silenced, banished, or isolated from society, because simply being honest and sharing our stories of suffering triggers discomfort in others.

And for some reason, if someone's story triggers discomfort, it is totally accepted and normal in our current society to shame, blame, banish, or attack the messenger of the story. Truth of the story doesn't matter. A person's right to free speech is not honored or valued.

In a sense, free speech has become secondary to protection of individual's feelings. They are now considering adding 'trigger warnings' for college classes.
"Classrooms have always been spaces where difficult, traumatic stuff got dealt with," said Angus Johnston, an associate professor at Hostos Community College in the Bronx, N.Y., and historian of student activism. "What's different now is, partly as a result of this new ethos in the online world of trigger warnings, you are seeing people being willing to assert themselves and say, 'My emotional well-being does matter."

Laurie Essig, an associate professor at Vermont's Middlebury College, first heard about trigger warnings in the college context five years ago, following a discussion about eating disorders in her Sociology of Gender course. To illustrate her points, Essig showed pictures of fashion models and images taken from pro-anorexia web sites. Two students took her to task, telling Essig, 'Oh, you should have given a trigger warning for people with eating disorders, they can't see images like that."

While she has colleagues who do provide trigger warnings, Essig finds them "ridiculous" and refuses to do so.

"I'm treating college students like the adults they are, and institutions increasingly treat college students like medicalized children," she said.

-- excerpt huffington post 4/26/14: Link Removed
I think one possible big contributor is that our modern society currently has a VERY low tolerance for pain, especially psychological pain. This is probably due to advances in technology, improvements of standard of living, relatively stable governments and economies, and no significant uncertain drawn out global wars since WW2.

So, without consistent tangible threats from the real world, the threat focus has turned towards emotional triggers.

BUT, emotional triggers are not actual real life physical dangerous threats. The more we feel our triggers, the less power they have over us. At the same time, the more we over-react to triggers, the more we actively avoid them, the weaker our ability to tolerate feeling genuine emotion.

So with a society that seems to be hyper-sensitive to emotional triggers, the active use of social shame to silence trauma survivors is totally fair game. This is part of a 'culture of silence', which in the short term may protect the status quo and social comfort and order, but in the long term, the aspect of secrecy and silencing allows clever abusers to thrive, and society also ends up abandoning or indirectly abusing innocent victims.
A conspiracy of silence, or culture of silence, describes the behavior of a group of people of some size, as large as an entire national group or profession or as small as a group of colleagues, that by unspoken consensus does not mention, discuss, or acknowledge a given subject. The practice may be motivated by positive interest in group solidarity or by such negative impulses as fear of political repercussion or social ostracism. As a descriptor, conspiracy of silence implies dishonesty, sometimes cowardice, sometimes privileging loyalty to one social group over another.

---- excerpt wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_of_silence_(expression)
 
Dissociation is some level of detachment from experience. So if there is detachment from emotions, then that would also include detachment from shame.

However Brene Brown shared from her research that 'we can not selectively numb emotions'. I agree with this observation.

As for repressed memories, it's just moving memories out of consciousness into the subconscious or unconscious. They're still there, and especially if there's a lot of emotional energy involved. 'Out of sight, out of mind' works fine, until a trigger comes and brings part of that memory back into conscious awareness.
 
@Hashi, I don't agree either. I thought you might find the rest of the article helpful in understanding her viewpoint.

My problem is that it doesn't explain her viewpoint about eliciting a caregiving response from an abuser. It says nothing at all about that. The rest of the article talks about other things and seems irrelevant to that point.
 
@Hashi Ok, my feeble attempt at trying to address your confusion concerning the original quote:

The article is about exploring the aspect of shame within 'Betrayal Trauma Theory' defined as:
A theory that predicts that the degree to which a negative event represents a betrayal by a trusted needed other will influence the way in which that events is processed and remembered.
---- from Jennifer J. Freyd's webpage: http://pages.uoregon.edu/dynamic/jjf/defineBT.html
The original quote was an explanation of an example about how shame can be helpful in traumas with betrayal involved.

She starts with this theory:
It is also possible that feeling ashamed of oneself plays a protective function in close relationships characterized by abuse.
Then she goes into an example:
For example, if a parent emotionally, physically, or sexually assaults a child, the child may feel ashamed of herself instead of feeling angry at or afraid of the abuser.
In this example the parent is the abuser/perpetrator, the abuse is emotional, physical or sexual assault, and child is abused victim. The child feels 'shame' in response to the abuse, instead of anger or fear.

Then this is where the original quote comes from, she is referencing research examples to support her theory that shame can be a protective type response to betrayal trauma:
Researchers such as Dacher Keltner have found that whereas anger often results in fighting and fear often results in fleeing, shame tends to result in submitting and appeasing. Thus, the expression of shame has the potential to elicit a caregiving response from the perpetrator which could ultimately keep the victim as safe as possible within an unsafe situation.
She's stating that shame tends to motivate 'people pleasing' behavior, of which it has the potential to appease the abuser/perpetrator to respond in a less abusive way or possibly even a sympathetic/pity 'care-giving' response. This appeasing response instead of an aggressive response, can be a strategy to limit damage or danger from an abuser.

Then she summarizes at the start of the next paragraph here:
Although we propose that proneness to shame is useful for survival during ongoing abuse, it has harmful consequences in its chronic form.
She's made a proposal that 'shame can be useful for surviving ongoing abuse', then she transitions into describing negative aspects when shame turns into chronic shame.
......
In summary, I think she's just exploring how the shame response works for trauma within an ongoing relationship (betrayal trauma), and her proposal can be simplified into this:
The shame strategy is an attempt to de-escalate aggression and tension from the abuser, while the anger response to fight against might increase aggression from the abuser, and the fear response to escape or hide may frustrate and irritate the abuser.

She also states this at the end of her opening paragraph here:
Whereas victims of trauma perpetrated by a stranger may be motivated to either fight back or run away, these responses are less helpful in the case of betrayal trauma, in which the perpetrator is providing food, shelter, and/or emotional connection to the victim.
This is similar effect as 'the fantasy bond' response when children usually self-blame for their parent's flaws and faults, because that protects the image of safety from their providers. This gives the child the idea and option of controlling their behavior to create more predictable behavior and safety from the parent. The alternative of fully recognizing the parent's flaws & inadequacies, gives up all control of resources to the flawed parent. This leaves the child in a position of helplessness and uncertainty, which could be much harder to psychologically bear than the 'fantasy bond' illusion.
 
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