News New Term: Completed Suicide Vs. Comitted Suicide

[The Albatross]

Condensation hardly boosts your argument. Don't even get me started on Social sciences.

 

[J'qel]

My condensation? I'm afraid I don't catch your meaning of the term in that context.

If you meant condescension, I'm terribly sorry, but condensation *could* be used in that sentence to refer to my condensing the words-which I don't think I did, but it is a sentence that could be used.

If it *is* condescension, I assure you I have none. I don't believe in stupid, I believe in ignorance. It's just something someone hasn't had the opportunity to learn for themselves. There's nothing wrong with spending your time learning something else. This just happens to be in my backyard, metaphorically speaking. We all have our things, and words are mine, I find them fascinating.

I also find social sciences fascinating. For example; from anthropology I learned that all humans are 99.98% genetically similar. I thought that was pretty cool. I also learned that there was a tribe that only had one word that meant both blue and green and for the longest time people thought they couldn't tell the difference between the two because of it. Also kind of neat. I learned about tribes where insulting people was seen as flattery, and the worse the insult, the greater the flattery, and that we're making a slow turn back to nomadic lifestyles by the enforcement of minimum wage jobs and scarcity of work (people move for work continuously) and that urban tribes are being formed to fight poverty by sharing resources. Also very cool.

From sociology I learned business practices and that the cubicle environment drives profits down because of alienation of workers and the lack of investment in the company, which not only lowers productivity, but can lead to employees sabotaging their company's products out of frustration, losing them millions if not billions every year in profits. I learned that education is a means to exit poverty and class limits in developed countries, and that the sole largest problem in the third world countries is not the lack of aid, but the appropriation of it by despots and warlords and gangs who control black market food and medical supplies that were meant to be distributed.

Anthropology also encompasses archaeology as well, and I'm sure you know what that's for-it's even helping arid and infertile lands increase crop yields by using older methods that had been used in dead civilizations.

Psychology, well I would hope you know what that's good for, being on this forum.

There's some fascinating and very practical applications to social sciences, and a lot of them tell you how to react and respond to either individuals or masses to generate the response you want by identifying and using cues common to that culture. If for nothing else, it'd make you one hell of a marketing advisor internationally.

Done on an independant level it can give you insights into stock market investments and movements based on demographics and world issues.

Great stuff.

 

[The Albatross]

Carry on, obviously this is a comfort zone for you. But I have to say frankly, this whole topic doesn't change what peers or loved ones of friends have done and I guess I find a shallow topic for a serious issue in the manner of mental masturbation. With that, I'm done.

 

[J'qel]

I have known my own suicides, thankyou. Several.

That was very insensitive of you to imply such.

I was taking the topic as it was, a language topic with the implications thereof. It is entirely possible at least one of them would not be dead if he didn't think he "even failed at killing himself." Yes, that's a direct quote. He was found by his ex girlfriend after he finally "succeeded" and slit his wrists.

Assume what you will, but remember where you are. You are hardly the only one with scars.

 

[The Albatross]

Like I said, carry on. You say language matters, I say it doesn't.

 

[J'qel]

I have data. I'm happy with that as validation. It's less likely to make assumptions about me, a person it's never met and more likely to be objective.

Evidence over anecdotes and opinion any day of the week.

 

[The Albatross]

Works for me.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I also have no idea why it matters. Completing suicide is succeeding and now unfortantly no longer alive. I see no issue with comitted vs completed. I actually see it much easier to talk about it that way.

I don't see it add any positive overtones but that's just me. Not only am I not an English teacher but I am dyslexic and can't spell jack nor do I use English correctly.

In any case, I don't get the issue.

 

[Tinyflame]

One succeeds at not dying. One does not fail at becoming dead. Becoming dead bad. Not being dead is good, not a failure.

I agree that words are important and very much influence our thoughts. The above is a huge example and counter-cultural (not exactly the word I want)..

But I like facts without moral judgment. For eg, if the girl is heavy, so what? But 100 lbs walking in to a dingy bar infers other risks (nothing to do with anything else). So does the fact that the bar itself (is) dingy, etc.

I'd honestly prefer suicide was given negative language, because it is a negative thing, in both the negation and being unpleasant.

Yes. A hopeless one. (Again, best I can do for 'words').

I know it helped me to a minor degree to focus on the unpleasant sensory potential realities etc (though I'm familiar first-hand and that bothers me less, ironically.)

Words are what we use to frame our thoughts, in expression, conversely the words we use elicit particular feelings and subconscious reactions or even conscious reactions.

Yes. Look at the language of abuse and the inner critic.

Also perception & focus.

I was taking the topic as it was, a language topic with the implications thereof. It is entirely possible at least one of them would not be dead if he didn't think he "even failed at killing himself.

Lots of people call themselves cowards not to do it.

 

[Tinyflame]

That's what I mean words should speak the truth (& truth or at least percepetion could be variable), but not set out to mislead or harm or minimize or desensitize or devalue or objectify or stigmatize/ treat inferiorly.

 

[J'qel]

Even "heavy" is considered negative when talking about body weight. I was using a base example that I thought would be easily understood, given the prevalence of body image issues these days. Personally I think the judgement based on size is ridiculous.

I do think we should focus on enforcing in both conscious and subconscious ways that suicide=bad. So giving it something like "completed" seems unwise. We cheer when we've completed a task. We're done out work. It's over, we can go play now. We complete tasks, we don't complete fun. So to complete means to finish an arduous task, to be done something awful. I don't like that idea getting reinforced in our social consciousness. I'd prefer we reinforced it with terminology that points out suicide is awful. It's terrible, it's bad, it shouldn't be celebrated and life shouldn't be an awful task you're waiting to "complete" .

It sends the wrong message.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes I believe I understand the point and the analogy, what I meant was the truth lays between 'fat' and 'lush with promise'. I think where the analogy can fail (and I am not refering to the above generally or specifically, just to say), is that I think it's safe to say the pain and grief of suicidality /(SI) is not comparable to that of body image, nor would most say (I believe)-that life is an 'awful task' (that level might even signify improvement) - the unbearableness probably more characterizes suicidality.

So terms like committed or completed may very well bear on non-suicidal peoples' impressions, but I think carry very little weight to those feeling in unbearable pain, & therefore not impacting the rate; I don't think (for the most part) society's view is what is driving it. (Perhaps society's view/ stigma/ relative uncomfortableness to talk about it /negative consequences to talk about it, etc, but not = to promotion of it, per se. Otherwise, that would suggest it's more attitudinal, whereas rather protective factors include support, disclosure & acceptance of feelings,. honesty, etc, such as found on this site, along with professional help, meds, etc) .

JMHO, maybe it doesn't make sense. :confused:

PS, as per analogy,
add in things like weight gain/ loss being a consequence of changing weight versus weight during a sexual assautt, depression, meds, genetics, comfort eating, bad self-care, stress, working nights, not cooking/ eating out, bad nutrition/ poverty, no routine, illness, steroid use/ need (bloat, not weight), SI, alcohol or MJ use/ consumption, advanced cancer, pregnancy, pace, amount of care-giving, etc. The situation is very complex. To me, reducing ignorance/ increasing understanding & empathy is even better than wording reflecting positives.. Same re SI.