(clearing my own head but don't mind input) brother thinks his opinion is the only true one, upset

[littleoc]

Hello :)

Heads up: If this gets heated, I will ask for this thread to be locked. Be respectful.

I'm looking for help, not a debate... but since it involves some moral stuff it seem right to put it here. ???


Context (which you may need to understand what I'm looking for and what's bothering me):

It's 3am and I decided to tell my twin hi before going to bed at nearly-two. He has started dating someone's he sort of only just met, and I decided to ask him if she was nice. I'm concerned about how they're both definitely rushing this.

I told him as much. I backed myself up by saying that people older than me have said that it is a good idea to live with someone before you marry them -- to make sure they're the right one, that your habits don't clash.

He went on a rant on his beliefs. He talked over me if I tried to offer my beliefs. He was saying that marriage isn't about love or anything else, and modern society has destroyed it. It is patriarchal and meant entirely to have babies. Nothing else. You can truely fall in love AFTER marriage.

Then, he started saying that because "all marriage" in the past was male based and involved children and all that, this is a "moral truth."

This argument implies a common Christian view that there was a golden age and the world has since deteriorated. It means that the same kind of arguement, "all marriage should be about love because several societies came to this conclusion in modern times independently," is wrong.

That's the thing. He won't stop. He keeps talking over me, saying his opinion is the only true one, teaching me like I'm a confused child and not a full grown adult. If i say I don't want to talk about something, he won't drop it. I can't escape. And it's demeaning.

I don't even know what bothering me.


He's pushing his views on me like they're the only truth. That's how his mind works. He's autistic, but very black and white.

He tells me constantly that my views are wrong. Just wrong. Doesn't even listen. When I try to get away he accuses me of just avoiding everything including the truth.

But his information serves him and only him and he literally doesn't even know it. I'm not sure how to build a boundary without being accused of avoiding again.

He is telling me constantly that marriage is bad nowadays, love doesn't matter, heterosexual marriage is the only marriage that matters.

What's even bothering me? I know this isn't true. I have seen real word examples of this not being true. He's unwilling to see evidence elsewhere.

Why couldn't I leave when I had a flashback and got upset? I don't even know what the panic was. Something about being forced to marry a rapist and have his kids. Something about being wrong and dirty. Being angry that I was being talked down to like an idiot and not being allowed to talk and not even being able to come up with an arguement because it's f*cking 3am and all I wanted to do was say hi. I wanted to try to go to bed at a reasonable hour. Now I can't calm down enough to sleep.

I guess I should re-build that boundary of Do Not Talk Politics with Me at Night.

Also, I'll need to tell him not to interrupt me. His opinion is not the only one.

Also also, his view of marriage isn't right. It hasn't even been as consistent as he keeps insisting.

Why am I so upset?




Do YOU think marriage is just heterosexual baby stuff? Doesn't matter what actual adults say?

Since I'm imagining not, please help me form a general arguement to help me understand? Not a debate exactly, but some kind of validation. Because I don't believe it either. It hasn't been that way through all human history, so that argument is invalid.

My dad used to do this to me. And my ex who taught me I wasn't a human being, or an animal. And I get so overwhelmed. And upset. I can't even argue intelligently. It makes me angry with me.






For the record: If you agree that marriage is heterosexual, patriarchal, and only for baby making, that is fine. But currently I am having some kind of problem and do not exactly want to debate this, either. Please keep that in mind. You are entitled to your opinion and your lifestyle.

 

[littleoc]

I want a supportive brother. Not one who is telling me what to think and believe. I don't subscribe to his religion -- most humans don't. That shouldn't mean he has to shove it in my face.

 

[somerandomguy]

Marriage is for love. Period. Almost everyone now agrees. This is the 21st century; your brother is on the wrong side of history.

I'm sorry he's so disrespectful to you. He honestly sounds like a very unpleasant person to be around.

 

[littleoc]

I'm sorry he's so disrespectful to you. He honestly sounds like a very unpleasant person to be around.

That's the weird thing -- he's such a teddy bear, and a good person who cares about morals... just... this part IS unpleasant and not okay.

He thinks the modern world is on the wrong side of history -- that it's all just a fad like 1400s Florence (that place was a train wreck, though, in a lot of ways). But for some reason he thinks all of history otherwise was straight and like his views. Which is an impossible assumption. Even if he IS only talking about the Western world...

 

[littleoc]

Also, thank you for replying :) It helps





I did some grounding via physical therapy exercises. I even concluded that something about this situation made me feel helpless and trapped. I need to figure that out -- probably what I already said, though, about my dad and my ex.

However, I think it's a good reason to build up boundaries again... And I guess I'm still worried about being gay. It does feel... like I'm worse than others. But I know I was born this way. And it's not evil or harmful.

And I remember my brother reading a "study" to me that "proved" that children required a male and female parent to come out right. I knew it was wrong, the methods were literally nonexistent, and the data just as skewed as that "study" from the 50s that "proved" that black children weren't as smart as white children and should be segregated as a result. Plain messed up. So why was it bothering me? Because my brother was basically telling me my one piece of identity I've managed to pick out and salvage is wrong and sinful? I'm not even religious! Not by the most basic definitions of practicing a faith. Why does he have to act like I'm not worth a god's judgement? When he knows that his god says that no human deserves heaven.

What an awful brelief. Not a kind god, no matter how forgiving he is, if he only accepts a chance group of straight people.

 

[somerandomguy]

Wow, you sure have been exposed to a lot of negative garbage about sexual expression. Sounds like your brother has totally internalized all of those messages. But good for you for trying to break free from that stuff and living an authentic life. It must be really difficult - but you're a courageous person.

Mix religion into everything and it can get really toxic. I'm glad you're questioning what your brother is just wrongly assuming. People who assume everything should be exactly the way they they think it should be are exhausting and hurtful. So I think it's great that you're going to work on setting boundaries with him. That's really a great, healthy thing you can do for yourself!

 

[Swift]

Hey.
My belief is that marriage is love-based between any people of any gender, so there's that.
I also don't reckon that there's any problem with people having different beliefs about marriage, and living according to them, so long as they don't obstruct other's rights.
I have a brother, who's allistic, but otherwise sounds the same.
He sees whiteness and maleness and their attendant concepts as inherently rational. It just does not occur to him that he, like all others, is a product of his time and place, and none of his values are neutral.
He also tends to lecture rather than question - even about stuff he knows nothing about.
I know you didn't ask, but the three phrases that work with him are:
"Are you asking me, or telling me?"
"Is that fact or conjecture?"
"Is that a fact, or an opinion?"
It makes him get off his high horse for ten critical seconds, because he's otherwise a great guy.

 

[freebird]

Do YOU think marriage is just heterosexual baby stuff? Doesn't matter what actual adults say?

Gonna rant here:

Hell to the no!! I agree marriage is an old tradition rooted in patriarchy. Life's about love, not toxic tradition. Also, it is about bodily autonomy. Nobody should belong to anybody. People aren't products. What other adults say about your marriage/love life is none of their f'n business. I hate it when people look at a young person full of potential, and then scream at them that they need to ruin it with marriage and children *BARF*. Marriage can be very hard and traumatizing, and people shouldn't be forced/pressured into it:mad:. Same thing with having children!!!

When I was on my own I never ever wanted to get married. I avoided social contact with guys especially. My dh saw my struggles, and brought me food, and an ear for listening, and he didn't make me feel pressured at all. I felt safe in his presence, and I never thought I would fall for him. We were just friends.

Dh and I have been together now almost 7 years. Yes married. He was not raised in the US's misogny culture. He has so much empathy, patience, wisdom and care. He loves his mother, and grandmother. I saw how he treated others with such kindness and that is what made me fall. I learned that you be with/marry the person you want to become like!!

Love who loves you back! Love truly has no gender! Love has no tradition or politic. Love conquers all!

I believe that love has no gender!! Be who you are and stay away from those who say otherwise.

 

[Freida]

oh the great "what is marriage for" debate. Gotta love it!

I have friends who follow completely different religions and we have great conversations about belief systems and how it defines them. When you can do it with an open mind, and with the idea of understanding others, its fabulous. When it comes down to who is right and who is wrong --- its a sh*tstorm.

I have never understood the idea that government should be involved in marriage. No one needs my permission or approval to love/marry as long as it is between two consenting adults. It's as simple as that for me. Do I understand how it happens or where the attraction comes from? Nope. Does it matter? Nope.

.[/QUOTE]

He's pushing his views on me like they're the only truth He tells me constantly that my views are wrong. Just wrong. Doesn't even listen.

I don't even know what bothering me.

Uhmmm...I'm gonna guess this ^^^ is whats bothering you. The idea that you are wrong just because you don't agree with him.

 

[Friday]

It’s a difficult thing when the people you love have a different moral compass than your own, especially when they hold entirely opposing views.

 

[Ronin]

Have you tried to default to things you have in common, as siblings?

Since he will not drop the topic, move from it entirely, onto things that you do have in common and do not really need arguing, as they do not involve him and his plans, much less his fiancee, but are instead about you two, having a good and fun time. (I assume that exists as a possibility from the fact you live in a physical proximity, and share as intimate things as a heated debate is, with confidences the other one cares to hear and argue the fine points of it days in and out.)

Edited to add: Maybe this IS his idea of support? He clearly feels strongly about it, and cares for you hearing what he believes is right, the best in life, the good course of it. I would read care in it, very opposing and troubling for how he goes around it, but care, if your relation is good, otherwise. :)

 

[littleoc]

Edited to add: Maybe this IS his idea of support? He clearly feels strongly about it, and cares for you hearing what he believes is right, the best in life, the good course of it. I would read care in it, very opposing and troubling for how he goes around it, but care, if your relation is good, otherwise. :)

Interesting you say this -- my brother is concerned about my ability to get into Heaven. He has said as much, and I usually reply with telling him it's between God and I -- he doesn't even need to know my personal views. I try very hard to respect his views and opinions. I think I wish he'd return the favor? He must know I'm confused about it to say the least. Possibly why he talks down at me about it.

Thank you, everyone, for your input. It's very helpful <3