News Connection Domestic Violence And Public Violence - Guns - Massacres

[anthony]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Bullshit. That is absolutely rubbish and some rhetoric nonsense that organisations like the NRA want you to be indoctrinated with to excuse away gun violence.

The statistics for suicide in the US, the majority are at the hands of a gun. Most would not otherwise die, as the majority want to die, but they don't actually have the ability to otherwise jump from something tall, launch in front of a train or other such means. A gun makes killing easy... guns kill people, even without a person behind the trigger.

Put a gun in a persons hand and face them with fear, then put a knife in a persons hand, face them with the same fear. See what a gun does vs a knife, being that the first they just have to pull the trigger and then explain fear, the second they have to actually fight with to get the same result. 99.9% of people will drop the knife and choose a different course than kill, compared to having a gun in their hand.

Guns kill people. Your NRA have got you second guessing yourselves.

As to the original point, I absolutely concur that DV extends into many facets of life for negative effect, even beyond the DV situation, years or decades after. DV is devastating to all those who experience or witness it, and can have life altering affect.

 

[Recovery4Me]

I am not especially in favor of deranged beings with guns nor them driving large vehicles. However eliminating the right to bear arms or the USA 2nd Amendment on the basis of crimes does not float with me nor will be settled among us.

People do unfortunately often kill people and sometimes their choice of weapon is an gun that is issued or privately purchased.

Quite honestly...people can kill people with a nine volt battery and a nail. However, no one bothers on those agendas for elimination as it isn't as sensational or news worthy. Action urges and follow through are not defined by the choice of weapon.

NRA influenced, you say? Heck no, quite often I needed one where I lived to save my arsh from bears, crazed animals with rabies, save the deer from being jack lighted (Ie: send warning shot messages to illegal hunters), stop several attempted breaking and entries, and that was just some of my private stuff.

Just because one does not agree with something does not discount the cause or organization. We might all agree to disagree and I will die with my darn boots on. :D :clown:

 

[anthony]

I don't personally believe the USA will ever change their 2nd amendment right to bear arms. It is just so engrained in the culture...

As much as I hate to agree with Donald Trump, based on gun crime in Texas where everyone is strapping at the waist or in their purse, in your culture and society, more guns may be the only solution to what is a gun crime epidemic. If every teacher, parent, adult walking around, is carrying a pistol on their belt... people would really have to second think firing a weapon in public, because just like Texas, you would have everyone around you with a pistol pointed at you, if not pulling the trigger if you fired once.

The American culture is just too engrained with guns... and Donald Trumps solution is not entirely idiotic, as much as I hate to say those words.

 

[Anarchy]

No need for an assault rifle to hunt. Purpose is mass killing without discrimination.

would anyone else like to define "assault weapon" and explain how it differs from for example a Remington model 8 or a Winchester model 1907, both of which were designed for hunting and sold for that purpose beginning in the 1900s?

I'll leave that question open while I address the OP's main question, domestic violence.

 

[The Albatross]

@anthony - I'm personally not inclined to dig around with newer stats nor dig around for a bunch of new stats to include now "suicides"... said it all pretty much here: https://www.myptsd.com/threads/do-a...he-world-makes-fun-of-them-answer-here.54041/

Agree to disagree, we are not likely to ever come into agreement on this.

 

[Anarchy]

As
research shows 1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have suf-
fered from some type of physical violence from an inti-
mate partner,
1

http://dev.cjcenter.org/_files/cvi/breaking-cycle.pdf

Where the authors of that quote got the figures from:
http://www.ncadv.org/learn/statistics
http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf

Even if we take those figures with a very large pinch of salt, and allow that they might be an order of magnitude or even two orders of magnitude out*

we still have an extremely large haystack to search for any form of mass killer in
How many people will ever become mass shooting perps or serial killers?
in broad orders of magnitude, you are looking at something like one in tens of millions - whether that's one in 10,000,000, or one in 30,000,000

So, even if domestic violence were only one in 100 (we know it's higher than that)
that's still giving a haystack of false positives with five zeroes behind it.

I'm not underplaying the seriousness of domestic violence
or suggesting that these events don't sometimes/frequently/ or even mostly start with DV

only that any attempt to use DV as a predictor is doomed to failure

Using DV as a predictor is (in this extremely conservative example) only a couple of orders of magnitude better that using the drinking of water as a predictor - because absolutely all of the mass shooting perps, serial killers, ISIS goat rapists and kiddy fiddlers, perpetrated their sickness after they'd been drinking water
that stuff is just too dangerous, one breath of it will kill :eek:
__________________________________________
edit;
I forgot to add,
I've seen it repeated several times, but have never tracked down a source for the figure

That American cop's partners suffer twice the average rate of DV victimization.
______________________________

*The CDC doesn't have the best of reputations amongst criminologists, as it has been the source of several highly misleading figures derived from egregiously cherry picked sample populations, for example Kellerman's oft repeated figure for a gun in the house increasing risk of hommicide by 49 times. It's notable that Kellerman published in the New England Journal of Medicine (which allegedly did not seek supporting data for papers featuring guns), rather than a criminological journal
Nevertheless, I have erred in the extremely over cautious side for the figures.

 

[ms spock]

My psychiatrist was telling me that the suicides by gun didn't translate into other suicides - that was so heartening with those statistics came out. A lack of access to guns literally meant a whole lot of people didn't commit suicide. When it wasn't so quick and easy to access the guns those types of gun suicides didn't translate into other types of suicides. Interesting stuff.

I so feel for Medic72, who didn't want a gun in her house and then lost her spouse to a gun suicide. So sad.

 

[Anarchy]

A lack of access to guns literally meant a whole lot of people didn't commit suicide.

who's figures are you basing that on?

although it's ten years old now, this was published in the Harvard Journal of Public Policy, and gives a very good survey of the research up to 2006,

Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International Evidence
Gary A. Mauser, Simon Fraser University
Don B. Kates, retired

Abstract:

The world abounds in instruments with which people can kill each other. Is the widespread availability of one of these instruments, firearms, a crucial determinant of the incidence of murder? Or do patterns of murder and/or violent crime reflect basic socio-economic and/or cultural factors to which the mere availability of one particular form of weaponry is irrelevant?

This article examines a broad range of international data that bear on two distinct but interrelated questions: first, whether widespread firearm access is an important contributing factor in murder and/or suicide, and second, whether the introduction of laws that restrict general access to firearms has been successful in reducing violent crime, homicide or suicide. Our conclusion from the available data is that suicide, murder and violent crime rates are determined by basic social, economic and/or cultural factors with the availability of any particular one of the world’s myriad deadly instrument being irrelevant.

This paper is the penultimate version as a few minor editorial changes have been made in the final publication

Dead Link Removed

A selection of Mauser's other papers
Dead Link Removed

 

[Deleted member 28740]

There’s a joke going around online, and I hate to joke on a day like this, but it says, "'Can I get two boxes of Sudafed?' 'Sorry, by law, you can only buy one at a time.' 'OK, then just the one box of Sudafed and these seven guns.'"

Unequal law for domestic violence and gun use:

Four and a half years ago, Marissa Alexander fired a warning shot into the wall when she felt threatened by her abusive husband. Although no one was hurt, she was sentenced to 20 years in prison for aggravated assault. Her ongoing legal battle has captured national headlines, sparking widespread outrage over the criminal justice system’s unfair treatment of domestic violence victims and Florida’s Dead Link Removed of its “Stand Your Ground” law, which Alexander Dead Link Removed to invoke.

Alexander eventually took a plea deal that required her to serve three years behind bars, and she is expected to be Link Removed. First, she has to Link Removed during which a judge is likely to give her two years of house arrest. And when she arrives at the Duval County Courthouse in Jacksonville, she’ll be greeted by a symbol of solidarity from other people who have survived domestic violence and abuse.

 

[The Albatross]

For what it's worth, I do personally believe that the conviction and prison term was absolutely wrong for Alexander... that incident also happened in my state.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

For what it's worth, I do personally believe that the conviction and prison term was absolutely wrong for Alexander... that incident also happened in my state.

So how are gun laws enacted and enforced fairly and reasonably?

 

[The Albatross]

Gun laws are reasonable... unfortunately case by case... the laws already on the books are a quagmire which is complicated by judicial variances for trial and sentencing (if one is convicted)... prosecutorial discretion (District attorneys and state agents like state's attorneys), and such. No system is perfect. There are any number of horrendous cases taken up and also wrongful convictions that occur.

I guess already, in only two pages... I'm not really sure what you're niggling at and others have already conflated the issue.

In the Orlando case, for instance... the perp legally purchased his weapons, though there is dispute as to whether or not the Feds dropped the ball and should have "flagged him" if he bought weapons. So far as the AR-15.... people conflate the issue and confuse it as an automatic weapon, when it's not... a military grade weapon when it's a friggin' rifle. Personally we do not own one nor are we inclined to do so... however... people who freak out about AR-15's often conveniently forget that Fast and Furious put 500 of these into circulation under a Federal program under Eric Holder. So if y'all want to be pissed off, get pissed of at the Feds and the idiot administration that thought that would be a good friggin' idea.

State's last time I checked still have rights to legislate... though it is the FEDs who have and provide oversight.