News Connection Domestic Violence And Public Violence - Guns - Massacres

[Bill Dickerson]

The question asked is misleading. Everyone wants good gun laws that are responsible. There are already many on the books. The current and recent past gun Bills put before Congress are only theater. For instance the one where they don't want people on the No Fly to be able to purchase guns. Sounds good on the surface but in reality you can't deny someone's rights without due process.

The No Fly list is so full of errors that Congressmen and Senators have been placed on it by mistake. No one is notified they are on the list. You are placed on it by some bureaucrat and only find out about it if you try to fly.

Bureaucrats taking rights away from people arbitrarily won't work and would never stand up in the courts.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

The No Fly list is so full of errors that Congressmen and Senators have been placed on

No Fly List is a red herring. Background checks that are consistent and loop holes in gun purchases are the issue that must be addressed.

 

[Anarchy]

The no fly list remains an example of actual background checking
and the TSA that goes with it

That's what the real things look like, false positives, mixed up records, wrong person, wrong address, arbitrary and inflexible.

I've dealt with the British system of gun controls (which has been up and running for 95 years now!) for over one third of the time it has been operating.

although it doesn't get the same media coverage as the no fly lists, it is no more functional. You may wish for a system that is accurate, up to date and reliable,

you may think that the united state can succeed where everyone else has failed

but that's just plain and simple nirvana fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

Look at the Canadian long gun registry, and the complete (and incredibly expensive) failure that that has been.

Looking at computer record systems, the British NHS (which only deals with about one fifth the population that a united state system would have to deal with), has spent billions over the last thirty years or so on failed system after failed system.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
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Assuming that a reliable system were put in place

how does that stop the informal ("black") market in guns?

and how robust would it be against active subversion? eg data entry clerks adding people they don't like, removing people they do like, deliberately mis typing names and addresses, adding people who don't exist and addresses that don't exist, and generally throwing grit in the gears?

 

[Bill Dickerson]

No Fly List is a red herring. Background checks that are consistent and loop holes in gun purchases...

What do you consider inconsistent about background checks and to what loop holes are you referring?

 

[Deleted member 28740]

eg data entry clerks adding people they don't like, removing people they do like, deliberately mis typing names and addresses, adding people who don't exist and addresses that don't exist, and generally throwing grit in the gears?

Driver License though state by state work mostly. Guess a clerk could change things to suit. Passports. Why the gun check willy nilly state by state on felonies. Felonies were used to take away voter rights. What system does that work on that gun background checks can not?

 

[Anarchy]

Oh goodness, voting rights!

Neither death nor unreality are barriers to voting, both the deceased and Disney characters vote early and vote often in US elections, and producing proof of ID is widely considered to be waycist.

How much scrutiny is applied to (or implied by) driving licenses? An English friend went to apply for a provisional license in Membabwe, Tennessee. The guys said "no no, take the test now" he drove an automatic car twice around a track and answered a few multiple choice questions - and he had a full driver's license.

This is the guy who's hard bastard older brothers wouldn't accompany him for driving practice in Britain. AFAIK he didn't have to submit any green card or passport.

Neither represents a reliable database.

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edit: kiwi and Aussie sheep shaggers shearers who come here, typically have half a dozen or more driving licences for all sorts of countries. If they get caught drink driving anywhere and get banned, they just use another country's license and carry on driving.

Most forms of hommicide are illegal - but that illegality doesn't lessen homicides and illegality won't lessen gun ownership either.

 

[Bill Dickerson]

The current background checks go through an NCIC National Crime Information Center maintained by the FBI. All dealers have Federal Firearm License and are required to check this before the sale.

 

[cat-lady]

The Supreme Court has just made a ruling on domestic violence and guns.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/supreme-court-upholds-wide-reach-u-s-gun-ban-domestic-n599816