News Do Americans Wonder Why The World Makes Fun Of Them? Answer Here!

[Fadeaway]

I just find it amusing that if a parent constantly told their child "We are going to take that toy from you." and never followed through, the child would stop listening. Instead it fuels people to become more erm.....intense about their gun rights. Threatening to take away peoples guns makes for a perfect diversionary tactic here.

 

[intothelight]

Alcohol plus Guns = Disaster! Guns, period = Disaster!

I've been thinking about this and following the train of thought............:D

Alcohol + cars = disaster

Statistically cars cause far more death and injuries. Then you have......:confused:

Alcohol + sex = disaster

Statistically drunk sex has a higher rate of STD's (some of which can be fatal), unplanned pregnancy, or perhaps "I Am Married To A Waitress And I Don't Even Know Her Name". :eek:

So maybe alcohol is the problem? Wait the US tried that ....prohibition....maybe it didn't work because of the guns, cars and sex? :O_o:

Or perhaps they are all problems and none of them should be legal!!! :arghh;

Maybe we should ban alcohol, cars, guns and sex! Oh wait.....I just described redneck hell! :p

 

[anthony]

I do love some arguments that this type of discussion ensues. Especially the cars one, that's just a given.

I would pose this question to people when thinking about counter arguments: does the necessity exist to warrant having something such as a gun?

A car gets you to employment, food, so forth... yes, cars kill more than guns. Ok... so because something does more damage, does that mean it should be a relevant counter point? What point do guns have in the scheme of ownership?

If you make illegal all gun ownership other than necessity (farmers, those who live off of the land), then have you not just reduced the ease of access to guns which kill with nothing more than the pull of a trigger? Too easy compared to pulling a knife and then having to actually put in effort to use it, which may fail miserably when having to fight another to use said knife, compared to sitting back a safe distance and pulling a trigger.

Should we use counters to argue without also outlining the necessity of something to begin with.

Yes, alcohol + cars = disaster. Technology is getting better in this area, and before you know it, newer cars won't start if they sense alcohol in your bloodstream. Think that's science fiction? Oh no... that is near reality.

This stuff was being developed years ago with success: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...t-start-youre-drunk-smell-alcohol-breath.html

The US Government has been building this stuff with auto makers for years, unveiling an actual prototype just days ago: http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmu...t-know-youve-been-drinking-but-your-car-will/

The Driver Alcohol Detection System for Safety — known as “DADSS” — is a noninvasive system aimed at detecting when a driver is above the legal alcohol limit by instantly measuring the driver’s breath or skin. If your blood alcohol level is above 0.08 percent — the legal limit in all 50 states — the car will be disabled.

In the breath-based system, being developed by Sweden’s Autoliv Development, the driver’s natural exhaled breath is drawn into a sensor on the steering wheel, which uses infrared light beams to measure the concentrations of alcohol and carbon dioxide present. (Molecules of alcohol and carbon dioxide absorb infrared radiation at specific wavelengths, so the system can quickly tell the difference between the two and accurately calculate the alcohol concentration.) It’s less intrusive than today’s in-car breathalyzers, which require some convicted drunken drivers to blow into a tube before they can start their car.

In the touch-based system, blood alcohol levels under the skin’s surface are measured by shining an infrared light through the fingertip. It will be integrated into the start button or steering wheel, and take multiple, accurate readings in less than a second. It’s being co-developed by Takata, a major automotive supplier, and TruTouch, an expert in alcohol sensing using near-infrared spectroscopy.

Cars + Alcohol is being worked on at the manufacturer level, removing the issue from people, because people lie, cheat, deceive and drink drive if they want to. Cars themselves will be the stop gap in the equation.

 

[Lucycat]

I love this logic.

Obesity is the cause of many deaths in the western world.

Let's ban food.

 

[Rumors]

@anthony Yes we need guns. We can't close our borders. What makes you think we can confiscate all the guns from the bad guys? And, if we did how do we keep them from crossing the border and landing back in to the bad guys hands? If you could make the U.S. drug free, close the borders, and ease the illegal population out, or legalize them, then I would say you could begin to disarm America. However, disarming America only means you take the guns from the people who follow the law and you leave armed the small percentage of the population who use them for evil. There is no way to disarm the US safely. The borders would then turn into a route to smuggle weapons and drugs and people. You see how successful we have been at stopping drugs and people.... Facts are that it is hard to take away something that has always been....especially guns. Just my humble opinion as a citizen.

 

[watundah]

Well, to answer your original question, do any other countries have photo sites dedicated to Walmart shoppers? Nuff said!;)

 

[watundah]

We have several countries in the world with a high number of gun owners and very few murders. America has a messed up culture with little regard for human life. Our forefathers weren't thinking of an Uzi in every pot, they would frown upon us all right now. The Bill of Rights is like the Bible - open to interpretation in what ever way works out best for that particular individual.

 

[The Albatross]

Disagree, I don't think that the Constitution is a living document, however agree on your assessment that America has a messed up culture with little regard for human life. Nor do I think the Bible is open to interpretation in whatever way that works for an individual by the way but that is a statement that is in the interest of disclosure rather than criticism.

The way I see it... open boarders and the influx of people from one of the more violent places in the world (South America and Mexico) ...preference being ahead of and relatively unrestricted in spite of laws on the books a great many other potential immigrants who have been waiting to lawfully immigrate have not helped things. I would like to see America go the way of Canada and Australia by their immigration policies. Does that mean I'm anti-immigration? Nope. Does that mean I want to throw wide the doors and have citizens with dubious backgrounds cross over unrestrained to the detriment of my nation and risk law abiding citizens and lawful immigrants? Eh nope.

Do I think it would ever happen in my lifetime? That would also be a no... both prominent parties have reason to ignore the boarder issue. Not only that, our own Federal government has been running guns.

 

[Anarchy]

Not saying the US is safer. Our murder rate per capita is roughly 4x UK murder rate per capita.
.

The united state rate is for homicide. Basically if it looks like homicide it is counted as one. England and Wales. The figure is for "murder" which requires a perp to be caught, a murder conviction and an exhausted appeals process
Once that is completed and the wicked witch of the Wests broom an the ruby slippers are all together, then it is counted as a "murder" for the year the process is completed. If anyone remembers.

We can only guess what proportion of homicides jump through all of the hoops and make it onto the record ed stats.

My personal guess is around ten percent at best.

Interestingly, even with a "murder" rate. Scotland has about twice the per capita rate of England and Wales.

If my wild arsed guess of 10% is roughly correct, then Sara Brady paradise could well have twice the homicide rate of the united state, and the land of the porridge eaters, four times the rate.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever know what the true situation is, as the stats are compiled for political rather than for informational ends.

 

[Barberian]

I do love some arguments that this type of discussion ensues.

Anthony, You have said you understood the arguments that would ensue if you brought up this topic. So I ask you, did you bring up this topic to troll your own board?

 

[joeylittle]

open boarders and the influx of people from one of the more violent places in the world (South America and Mexico) ...preference being ahead of and relatively unrestricted in spite of laws on the books a great many other potential immigrants who have been waiting to lawfully immigrate have not helped things.

Yes we need guns. We can't close our borders. What makes you think we can confiscate all the guns from the bad guys? And, if we did how do we keep them from crossing the border and landing back in to the bad guys hands?

Just gotta weigh in from the other side of the debate - I don't know that anyone is saying we should take guns away from law enforcement.

The problem with the right to bear arms is that it encourages vigilante-ism as a way of life. "Defend your own". We don't have a vast influx of crime lords and drug bosses coming in from our southern borders - there aren't a vast number of those people, anyway. We've been good at being excessively violent in the US since our white European forefathers slaughtered the American Indians. Personally, I don't believe for a second that any immigration event, going back to the 1800s, has led directly to upticks in violence - except insofar as population increase will naturally create statistical change.

The original settlers of the US, those forefathers and mothers, have always taken a defensive stance. Defend against the Native. Defend against the English. Defend against the Negro. Defend against the Irish. Defend against the Chinaman, the German, the bands of marauding, drug-sniffing, Peaceniks. Defend against illegals.

We are settlers, and it's our history.

I wish I could say the answer was to put more faith in our organizations that are meant to keep the peace - but there are parts of America where it is now quite obvious and clear that there are people who need to defend themselves against the police.

Probably, if we just did it the way Australia did in the 90s - straight ban on automatic and semi-automatic weapons, a buyback program to get them all out of the citizenry, and a national registry - every American citizen could have their right to bear arms, but the citizenry would not be able to own enough firepower to walk into a school and discharge 154 rounds in less than 5 minutes.

I'm all for our freedoms. They are messy, but they make America what it is. Still - what private citizen needs access to that kind of firepower?

Jim Cooley, who on June 4th open-carried an AR-15 semi-automatic assault rifle loaded with a 100-round ammunition drum into the airport in Atlanta, Georgia, was not breaking the law. When asked why, his answer was "I carry a firearm for the safety of myself and my family." One hundred rounds.

I don't get it, really.

 

[Friday]

Still - what private citizen needs access to that kind of firepower?

I don't get it, really.

Recoil.

Ever fired a 30.06 vs AR15? Standard rifles & shotguns recoil like mthrfkrs. Dang things hurt. The recoil on an M16/AR15? It's a tap. 2 finger tap to your shoulder. That's it. Versus kicking like a mule & leaving bruises at best and torn up muscles & connective tissue at worst (if you're holding it all awkward or have been caught by surprise and don't have time to seat it properly). Unless you're a total muscled badass (& I'm not, I'm a big baby) that kick affects both accuracy & willingness to put in the practice to be able to hit what you're aiming at.

My 2nd favorite long range target acquisition rifle is a bolt action Remi 700 series (1st favorite is something British that I borrowed once upon a time and really need to figure out what it was. Sweet and smooth as silk, that rifle. I don't know if you could miss if you tried.) Even, so... If I were hunting? I'd want an AR15. Not for the hunting, but for the using it on the fly. Because when you're out in the woods... Absolutely every single predator out there is bigger, badder, and better armed than we are.

I live in the city. There is very little reason for me to be armed, here. Human inhabited areas are virtually free of predators and problems outside of our own making, and we've got police in spades. Although, here on a PTSD board, I think we're maybe overly familiar with those particular problems. I keep a shotgun loaded with rock salt (stings like a mofo, unless I'm close to you, in which case even rock salt will take off a limb) for intruders (my house was broken into 2-3 times a week for awhile)... Although racking it is such a distinctive sound that the noise alone usually sends people packing. Even so, unlike pistol & rifle rounds, bird & buck shot isn't going to go through my walls and hurt my neighbors. Rock salt? Again, unless I'm firing point blank into the drywall, I'm not even going to do much more than ding the paint. Less lethal rounds can still kill a person (I prefer Canada's use of the word less-lethal, rather than American non-lethal, because even blanks can kill if you're close enough, much less rock salt or bean bags). Even so, I usually grab the machete, mag light, or a kitchen blade if I'm investigating something. Pure bias, firearms are loud, especially indoors, and I don't own suppressors for all my weapons. Nor do I keep most of them at home. Because, again, I live in the city. I don't need them.

Jump on out to the country? Much less the back country? Whole 'nother ball game. These aren't manicured greenspaces, parks, and back yards. Not even the ghetto. This isn't "The police didn't bother to show up for an hour!". This is, maaaaybe someone might find your body in a few months, or a few years, but probably not. There's no back up. You're on your own.

A 5.56 round (or even a 7.62) isn't going to stop a bear. It's just not, unless you're both lucky and good. Neither will most other rifle rounds. Moose, bear, even the big cats... They've got fur & thick skin & fat & muscle that protects them like body armor. More than likely, unless you're using a .50 cal round to their head, you're going to need to put a few rounds into them. Once upon a time, I used to be pretty good at spine-shots. That needs constant practice, and I simply don't have the money to be putting a few thousand rounds a week downrange. Disconnect the CPU, and your target drops. Anything less? They're still going to be coming at you, if they're a pissed off wounded predator, whose meal has just stung them like a bee. I do not want to be f*cking around with a bolt action rifle, with narrowing distance between me and 500lbs or more of sharp teeth and claws or hooves and attitude. Nor do I want to depend on their being afraid of a bee sting and takin themselves off elsewhere (happens, sometimes). What I want is to be able to put 3/6/9 rounds into them...fast.

Which means semi-automatic & recoiless. Not bolt action and one arm dangling limply at my side if I gaffled the shot.

Quite honestly? Same goes for people. Most people are pretty decent. But back of beyond, 300 miles to the nearest cop-shop? I really don't want to be depending on the milk of human kindness. I've met some really awesome hikers, hillbillies, & off-grid sorts back of beyond. :) I've also met some serious f*cktards, who do not play. :meh: If I've got my bolt action remi? Most people in the country know that I've got -at best!- one shot, maaaaybe two. It's moderately easy to dodge a wild shot from a scared shooter. Most people are lousy shots, for real, especially when they're afraid. A "hunting rifle"? Shrug. They can take me. They know it, and I know it. AR15? :D I could be an absolute crap shot (I'm not), but with 30 rounds in the mag, and another 30 in reserve, I can have 60 rounds to play with in under a minute. If I've cheated, and modified for 3 round bursts, in less than 30 seconds (and they have no way to know if I've cheated, so the assumption is always that I have). As long as I maintain proper distance? Unless I'm out both numbered and outgunned, I can take care of myself.

While most people in this country live in cities/ manicured suburbs, where there really is no earthly reason (outside of a zombie apocalypse ;)) for ARs... Millions live in the country, still. Millions more go play in the country. Bolt action? Totally fine, as long as all you come across is Bambi.