How Do You Know If Flashbacks During Emdr Are From Real Events?

[Animalliberator]

When you describe a 'seizure' what do you actually mean? Do you have epilepsy?

No, Lucycat, I don't have epilepsy. Perhaps seizure isn't the accurate term. My body convulsed uncontrollably, my head shot back, my mouth opened far wider than was comfortable, my entire body seized up, my hands clenched shut, my stomach contracted until it hurt, my back bent in the chair, and then these weird sounds came out of my mouth. First gurgling, then moaning, then strange whining sounds, like a child. They happened at every session after the 3 or 4 EMDR session.

 

[Abstract]

I really hate to say this animalliberator but I somehow doubt that EMDR could create false memory. False memory is usually created by professionals suggesting things repeatedly and made more likely with hypnosis.

It sounds to me like the EMDR took you to places you were not even slightly prepared for and in a way that was overwhelming, very intense and re traumatising. I have had convulsion type experiences with re living and there is quite a lot of discussions about that on the site if you look it up. It sounds to me like this part of you was split off to protect you.

I hope you feel free to label it in any way that feels right for you at this time. I know there are people on here who will be able to relate so hopefully they will answer you.

It seems it is essential for a lot of ground work and preparation to be done before EMDR and that it is carefully monitored so that things are processed safely. A lot of people with severe side effects seem to not have had these things in place.

 

[Animalliberator]

Knowing that you a very data-oriented gentleman, can I ask (and/or recommend) that you try to find some professional studies as to whether or not EMDR can cause psychotic episodes? I imagine that would help to set your mind at ease more than others' experiences. If I come across any, I will post them here.

I've done tons of research about this. And I've not found much information. I did find a paper by a therapist who wrote about involuntary muscle contractions and strange vocalizations with many of his clients during EMDR sessions. But I was a bit skeptical of his paper because he is also an evangelical preacher and he concluded that there was a level of "possession" in his clients. Obviously, I don't give that conclusion much credence.

He wrote in his paper:
"The most common physical phenomena has been spontaneous/involuntary muscle contractions.
These range from small twitches of the face and hands to larger muscle contractions scattered
over the body. We have seen almost every muscle group included (face, neck, back, abdomen,
arms, hands, fingers, legs, and feet), although usually not at the same time or in a single patient.
Occasionally, spontaneous vocalizations will precisely accompany the muscle contractions. The
resulting twitching, jerking, and vocalizations at times appear very similar to the physical
phenomena we have observed in charismatic worship and/or healing prayer services."

Hmmm, can't upload the link. Google: EMDR Traumatic Memories, kclehman

 

[Lost Pup]

I think the goal here is for you to find supporting data that works for you personally (which is all that really matters here) so I would tend to encourage you to discard that paper, given that you have real reservations about the guys' background.

Maybe check out Link Removed. I have only scanned it but noticed he does discuss muscles and emotional memory and can vouch that he is extremely smart and well-respected.

 

[Animalliberator]

What did your therapist say?

He was very reserved in his conclusions about what I was experiencing. Having said that, he noted that in all his years as a therapist he had never seen such a violent physical reaction to EMDR or to therapy in general. He simply said, "Clearly, something traumatic has happened to you. We may never know if the images you saw represent real events. But they do show us that you have been terribly traumatized. Your body is tell us that."

 

[nursenurse]

I have been looking things up as much s I can, and there is some evidence that EMDR can cause false memory syndrome. You are between a rock and a hard place. Sigh. If it was your gall bladder I could tell you what to do :( someone said to trust your gut. You obviously have some skepticism here. I would go with the gut. I really feel for you. Again, you are carrying so much alone.

 

[Abstract]

This might be worth a read for you. https://www.myptsd.com/threads/emdr-lashback-when-emdr-goes-wrong.1388/ Keep in mind the beginning is very old and info a bit outdated.

Here is a quote from Shapiro:
All memory is fallible. During E.M.D.R. memory processing, associated memories may arise, but as with any form of therapy, there is no assumption without corroboration that they are true.

For instance, one of my clients came to me claiming that she had been raped by the devil when she was a child. During processing, she recognized that it was someone in a Halloween costume. However, if the memory had emerged on its own during processing, there would have been no assumption that it had actually been the devil.

Likewise, another client entered therapy concerned that perhaps her father had molested her, because she felt herself being held down and saw his face. During memory processing she remembered being attacked in a barn by some adolescents, and her father had come in to rescue her. She realized that this was the image of her father that she had been remembering. She was able to corroborate that this event had actually happened by asking her mother about it.

Many “false memories” can be created throughout childhood by a variety of causes. In addition to abuse, children may hear a story or see something on TV and come to believe it happened to them. These vicarious experiences may then be stored accordingly.

Processing during E.M.D.R. therapy can allow these images to dissolve as the brain makes the appropriate connections. In talk therapy, false memories can sometimes be created through the inadvertent suggestions of the therapist, but this is unlikely in E.M.D.R. therapy because the clinical input is minimal while the client’s brain makes the appropriate internal connections.

Some of the randomized controlled research conducted on the eye movement component of E.M.D.R. has also indicated that it causes an increased recognition of positive information, and an increased accurate assessment of false information. Further research will determine to what degree these findings also enter into the memory processing outcomes.

 

[Animalliberator]

Just came across a Google Book result that mentions two court cases which found EMDR is not similar to hypnosis and could not create false memories or memory distortion. Both cases were from the early 1990s and were cited in a book by Frances Shapiro who created EMDR but I suspect they are legitimate. There is an additional caveat there about not doing EMDR in conjunction with hypnosis that is probably wise.

I tried hypnosis. It was a disastrous experience. The therapist REALLY creeped me out. First, he did the sessions out of his home, a place I didn't feel safe. Second, and I found this so bizarre, he answered the door wearing what I thought were highly inappropriate short shorts. Third, during his attempt to hypnotize me he sat waaaaay too close for my comfort. He completely invaded my space. I felt like I was going to vomit. Needless to say, he was unable to hypnotize me. All I could feel and hear was his breath on me. Freaked me out.

I honestly don't know if what I saw during EMDR is from a real event or not. But it FELT very real during those sessions. I can remember every word the man said to me in those images. He told me he would give me candy if I promised not to say anything. He told me how "pretty" I was. I could hear and feel his breath on my neck and back. And I could feel him on me. All that happened during most of my EMDR sessions. Scared the beejeezus out of me.

 

[Lost Pup]

Just a reminder that, speaking medically or scientifically, there is no such thing as False Memory Syndrome. That is a highly charged concept in pop psychology and it was invented by people, the majority of whom claimed themselves to have been wrongly accused of sexual abuse by their now adult children. Given that it is not considered a real thing, scientifically, it would be categorically impossible to claim anything but hearsay "evidence" that EMDR played a role in its etiology.

 

[Lost Pup]

Yeah, I don't trust Hypnotists either. I tried it but just could not get hypnotized anyways.

Given how vivid you experience was during EMDR, can I ask why you doubt its veracity? It sounds quite solid and quite tied into a set of deep feelings and reactions. What is it that makes you doubt its reality?

 

[Animalliberator]

It sounds to me like the EMDR took you to places you were not even slightly prepared for and in a way that was overwhelming, very intense and re traumatizing. I have had convulsion type experiences with re living and there is quite a lot of discussions about that on the site if you look it up. It sounds to me like this part of you was split off to protect you.

I mentioned this on another thread, but I had my wife film me when I was trying relaxation exercises. I asked her to do so because when I have tried relaxation, mindfulness, and mediation exercises I have the same experiences I had during EMDR: my body convulses, my face contorts, my eyes and mouth twitch. This latest time I felt like a small child was in my stomach. I felt hands crawling up inside me from my stomach, up my chest, and then from the inside of my throat reaching up to open my mouth. My mouth shot open and then very strange vocalizations came out of me. They did NOT sound like my voice. My wife captured it all on video. And during the relaxation exercise I also started seeing the images I had seen in EMDR. I was being raped. Really disturbing, terrifying stuff.

 

[Abstract]

That sounds extremely terrifying and disturbing. I am sorry.