How Would You Feel?

[Nebulustrix]

Kas -

Thanks for your response. Reading it was a help for me at least in recognizing how much my own thought processes still have a tendency to take things to unnecessary extremes. I agree that he may not necessarily be intending to be manipulative, but it does still fall under what would be considered "emotional blackmail" (book of this title by Susan Forward, PhD). Emotional blackmail includes behaviors that people may not intend to be manipulative but are subconscious tactics meant to help an individual get their own way.

However, I believe that the only reason sex falls under a "physiological need" in Maslov's Hierarchy is because this rank includes all things required for survival - and sex is a requirement for "genetic survival", or rather the survival of a species. It is not a requirement for an individual to survive, and is not a necessity for someone's mental, emotional or physical health. It is simply a requirement for continuing with our progeny.

I think that many modern psychologists have twisted the inclusion of this in Maslov's lowest level of his hierarchy to produce opinions like the one you provided in your response. I understand that these opinions are held by several professionals in the psychological field, but I personally disagree with them.

 

[Abstract]

Just sending you some support Falling. I suspect just having this conversation is hard. I know it would be hard for me.

Just to help you a little remember that your reactions are nothing to feel guilty for. None of this is your fault. It just is.

 

[falling]

Thanks girls. You all have made very important points and I have a lot to think about and discuss with my bf before making any decisions. I'm so thankful to have your continued support.

 

[Kas_Can_Fly]

It is not a requirement for an individual to survive

You'll also notice that sexual intimacy is also on the hierarchy under the ability to feel love and a sense of belonging.

I agree that he may not necessarily be intending to be manipulative, but it does still fall under what would be considered "emotional blackmail" (book of this title by Susan Forward, PhD). Emotional blackmail includes behaviors that people may not intend to be manipulative but are subconscious tactics meant to help an individual get their own way.

I repeat my earlier question, if he has suddenly realised he can't handle being in a relationship with someone with PTSD or in a relationship without sex, what is he supposed to say? If he's got cold-feet and is having his own issues with nerves, how is he supposed to respond - should he keep it to himself and if he decides he can't stay, break up with no forewarning to his other half, or would voicing his concerns and possibly a rational discussion about his concerns be a better choice - or would that too be forcing sex upon her? The truth is neither you nor I know either way, Falling has asked for opinions, but unless she only wants her opinion reinforced, her partners views should also be considered as should his feelings.

Cold-feet arise when PTSD is not an issue, moving in with each other is a big step (bigger than marriage in my opinion - although that would vary greatly on the individual) and can cause unnecessary doubts short term. The added insecurity of PTSD can make those doubts seem enormous when they might just be nothing of the sort.

This message comes with a strong apology to the Falling, in my first revision of the last post I had included an apology in a paragraph that I deleted (however the apology was not meant to be removed). The thought is still there, this is a very difficult situation, especially for you - but really we can't make any assumptions about your relationship because we don't know you or your partner. I am aware that such a sudden turnaround, is very likely not the case - a relationship and am very glad you have decided to talk to your partner, this should be much more practical and beneficial to you both.

 

[presentjoy]

For me, years ago, when I was healing, being in a relationship with a woman where we both had sexual abuse in our pasts made it clear for me that it's possible, absolutely, to find intimacy that can be healing. To find a partner who can be patient and tender and understanding, even if they don't have personal experience. We helped each other.Trust isn't an easy thing to build but is an easy thing to lose.

It's tough to have a relationship in which safety for one person is a confusing thing to the other person. It's possible, but tough. I'm not sure if some men understand the level of safety and consent that is needed, and it almost goes against the way testosterone works. I may get flak from that comment but I don't mean it badly. I know there are so many tender, loving, caring men who are willing to pay attention to consent, to take it seriously, to not assume that what was okay one moment may end up being not okay in another moment.

It must always be okay to say no, and we must always know that it's okay to say it.

When intimacy ends up potentially being a trigger for flashbacks or dissociation or other things, it's extremely important to make explicit what we never see in representations of intimacy. "Is it okay if I do this?", "Does this feel good?", "Are you still okay?", and safe words, or establishing things like if I say I am having a flashback, it's ok to stop, and sometimes it may be needed to regroup. Other times, just going slower is what's needed. Or saying that I need something to be different because of reminders. This takes years and years to figure out, like when I was 18 I thought I was ok and 'past' the issues but it turned out I wasn't. It got worse before it got better. It's not always better. Boundaries, permissions, safe words. Just thoughts. His needs never go above safety. Ever, ever, ever, ever. This isn't controlling, it's creating the basic space that allows the real intimacy to begin. So however clear you can be to him about your boundaries, or how you hope to communicate in real time about what may be shifting boundaries, he needs to be willing to engage with that.

It's helped to learn that communicating more, rather than less, helps everyone. Even though it's not romantic.

So good on you for wanting to communicate about it. It can only help him sort out what he's willing to do for you. If he continues not putting your safety paramount, I might interpret that he's putting his needs over yours, and even if that doesn't make him a bad person, but maybe not prepared to support you in healing.

Speaking from the mid-length lens of being in my 30s. Still lots to learn and heal. Sorry if anything in this post is upsetting. I just wish there were more resources for women who are healing into intimacy. Maybe I just made my way without really getting what's out there.

Peace,
pj

 

[Kas_Can_Fly]

That was a fantastic post presentjoy. Absolutely amazing and very inspiring for me. Thank you.

 

[Nebulustrix]

You'll also notice that sexual intimacy is also on the hierarchy under the ability to feel love and a sense of belonging.

Yes - I agree that sex is an important part of a romantic relationship and does belong on this level of the hierarchy. However, I still have a hard time with agreeing to call it a need, probably because I don't consider a romantic relationship a need. Within a romantic relationship, sex is certainly needed for the relationship to be complete and fulfilling. But this is something that is given and shared only when both parties are completely comfortable with the giving, and trust is absolute. It is never to be taken, and I guess to me- when I see something called a need, I see it as something that is being taken from another in order to maintain oneself, instead of something freely given to another in order to obtain a higher level of fulfillment. Make sense?

I repeat my earlier question, if he has suddenly realised he can't handle being in a relationship with someone with PTSD or in a relationship without sex, what is he supposed to say? If he's got cold-feet and is having his own issues with nerves, how is he supposed to respond - should he keep it to himself and if he decides he can't stay, break up with no forewarning to his other half, or would voicing his concerns and possibly a rational discussion about his concerns be a better choice - or would that too be forcing sex upon her?

I really don't know the answer to the bolded. I have no idea what the best approach would be here, only that his cold-feet being so closely related to her unwillingness to be intimate really strikes me as a form of manipulation. I am all for rational discussions, and believe that his concerns should be voiced and recognized. It just needs to be done in a way that doesn't make it seem like he's saying "if you won't have sex with me, I'm not going to be there to support you". Now, I have no idea exactly how this played out, but this is the perfect kind of thing to be bringing up and clearing up with a rational discussion.

falling - I hope this back and forth has been helpful for you and hasn't pulled away from your thread. I've seen many threads get "hijacked" by side conversations in other forums and I'm not trying to do that here. I think it is important for you to be able to talk this situation through with your boyfriend and work through how you are both feeling so that you can come up with the best arrangement for you both to remain emotionally healthy. My gut, and perhaps a big portion of my own PTSD, instinctively reacts to what you described as something to run from - but it could also easily be nothing more than a misunderstanding and miscommunication that could be cleared up with a good heart-to-heart. You won't really know until you have that discussion with him and get a better understanding for the reason behind his cold feet and whether or not he's just trying to push you to have sex.