Intervention - Suggestions?

[Notsowild]

I had a recent post where I talked about my daughter having a violent episode with me. My son and I want to talk with her together before anything else happens. Her three girls witnessed this event so I'm quite concerned about their safety.

I've talked to a few mental health people and most say I have to wait for another violent episode before I can have her taken to the ER to be evaluated. And my psychiatrist thinks Social Services should be brought in. Both are rather harsh to do to my daughter. But if I have to I will so she can get help and the girls are kept safe.

So my son thought we should try an intervention of sorts. Just him and I. Only thing is she doesn't communicate well with us. She gets very defensive and angry if we bring up her moods or anger. She doesn't think there's anything wrong with her. We haven't tried both of us together though. It's one last try before we bring in the professionals or CPS.

Any suggestions on what to say?

 

[Seasounds]

Gosh, a tough spot. my heart goes out to you.
My thoughts:

• An intervention would likely cause another violent episode.
• A family conference with a Social Worker, who can be a neutral third party, and diplomatically lay out the plan (that you and the Social Worker agree upon). The Social Worker can inform your teenager what the consequences of her violent actions will be (i.e. possible hospitalization, foster home, etc.)
• It is great to make a support plan, of how you can keep any boundaries you need the teenager, without losing your temper, and without using a terse voice tone.
• The Social Worker can advise you on all the small and important aspects of working in the system. The Emergency Department may or may not keep your teenager. Unless they are a danger to themselves or others, your teenager would just come home. That is why a backup plan, would be great.
• If your teenager commits domestic violence, that can become a legal issue; your teenager may appreciate knowing the consequences of this.

 

[StarChild]

your teenager may appreciate knowing the consequences of this.

According to the thread below, the daughter is not a teenager, but a 35 year old woman with 3 children...
https://www.myptsd.com/threads/mother-and-daughter-are-we-too-much-alike.47107/

For me, it would be an important thing to know and understand, why she still lives with you @Notsowild? Why doesn't she live by her own? And your son, does he also still live with you?

 

[Notsowild]

Sorry @change... My daughter is 35 with three girls.
@TreeHugger... My daughter and I moved in together in June this year. Her bf was getting verbally abuse and they needed to get out fast. She has lived on her own between boyfriends. But she doesn't work and relies on child support and allowance from the government. And no my son does not live with me.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

@Notsowild Is it that she can't work or that she doesn't want to find a job? Has she also been like that [moods and anger]?

 

[Notsowild]

[email protected]'s the strange part. She took a Community Social Worker course about 6 years ago and has never looked for a job in that field. And she still owes big time student loans for it. Lets see... She worked as a janitor at a school for 3 months and did housecleaning for about 6 months. That was it.

She does suffer from migraines. But what we thought of her being lazy and unmotivated could be depression. Yes we had a similar violent incident where she hit me in the jaw and tried to attack her brother. She also developed (hereditary?) panic attacks a few years ago. She was sexually molested by her father as a child

It's scary, I've got complex PTSD with extreme anxiety but I've never been violent. She needs some help.

 

[Seasounds]

@Notsowild & @TreeHugger,
Thank you for the correction.

@Notsowild, I hope you keep your safety a priority. I hope your daughter gets the help she needs.

 

[Anarchy]

Hi Notsowild,
Is it possible for your son to speak with your daughter alone, first?

She may feel more able to explain what is going on to him, and agree to come and speak to you. It would likely help for him to memorize the topics which he wants to cover with her, before he meets her.

With some de-fusing done before hand, you might be better able to have a calm discussion, with much less risk of it degenerating into recriminations.

also, if when you do meet, you can arrange to do it on neutral ground, and in public view - sort of as you would with a first date? That way there are no power dynamics of who's territory you are on, and, there is some social pressure to keep voices down and not "create a scene". Somewhere like a quiet table in the cafe at a shopping mall (that is so long as she is not likely to react by putting on a show for an audience!).

I don't know how good your experience of social workers etc has been?
especially where children are involved.

Despite many of the individuals on the ground, being caring and committed, the departments themselves all operate on bureaucratic box ticking and arse covering (it's the only way that the state sector can operate).

I know that the last thing you need now is more worry - my thought, which is worth every penny you've just paid for it (ie zero), is; anything connected to the state (including doctors, therapists, social workers and cops - possibly priests and charities too) can rapidly spiral out of your control, as "approved procedures are implemented"

Unfortunately the only way to avoid the risk of perhaps ending up riding to wherever a bureaucratic conveyor belt takes you (or takes her children), is not to get onto it.

Best of luck, and plenty of hugs.

 

[scout86]

Is there someone she DOES communicate well with? If there is, maybe you should talk to them. They may be able to give you more insight into how your daughter is thinking. If they agree that there is a problem, maybe they'd be willing to join in the "intervention". Putting myself in her place, I'd be WAY more likely to listen to someone I liked and respected, especially if the message was something I didn't want to hear.

My relationship with my family is different than yours. (I'd literally live under a bridge before I'd move in with my mom!) But, I "don't communicate well" with my mom & my brother. If they approached me with some kind of "You're doing THIS and we don't like it!" message, I'd probably react by remembering that neither of them have ever thought much of me, the message was more of the same & I'd probably tell them to "F" off. If they included one or more of my friends in the conversation, it would be different.

I think, for this to work, the person doing the actual talking has to be someone she'll listen to. But, the kids ought to be your first concern, if you think they're at risk. If she refuses to look out for them, you may have no choice but to involve social services.

 

[Notsowild]

@Anarchy....thanks for your wonderful response.
My daughter is the same way with my son as she is with me. She gets defensive and angry when he tries to talk to her. That's why I thought the two of us together would be better. I love the idea about talking in a public place. Hard to say though if her anger will not surface even in public.

We had Social Services involved in the last violent incident. The police were called and because children are there Social Services has to be notified. Not a lot was done but I was there to look after the girls.

We had another incident tonight. She was very verbally abusive and angry. She said how much she hated me plus she called me a bitch and other nasty words. I didn't understand most of her verbiage. It made no sense. It didn't even bother her that my body was shaking so badly from this. I don't even know this person.

 

[Notsowild]

@scout86... My son and I talked about this again tonight. We want to bring her step mother into it. They are close and she is more likely to listen to her. Close friends would be good but she's got rid of most of them lately. If they don't say the
right things to her their gone. She has one friend whom I've talked to a little about this. She sees a few strange personality changes in her.

That's all I think about is the girls. How this is affecting them. Why she can't see what she's doing to them. We need to get her help.

 

[The Albatross]

I do like the idea of including the step mother. I think a key aspect is to affirm to her the love of each participant, but decide as a group not only to identify the problematic behaviors but to set a boundary with consequences that will unilaterally be enforced.