Rant on diagnosing others

[Anarchy]

I'm not saying that it is deterministic,

But I would much rather take my chances with my physical and mental wellbeing with someone who scores low on the psychopathic and narcissistic check lists than with someone who scores highly on one of them.

 

[Sideways]

For example - my t tried for YEARS to get me to accept the term "sadist" because the definition of what a sadist does matched what he did to me.

I had exactly the same thing with a T I saw for years. And for the same reason - he was trying to help me accept how badly I had been abused (because in my head it obviously wasn’t a big deal!).

He also pushed the labels ‘pedophile’ and ‘psychopath’. And I think that maybe, for a while, that was helpful to my recovery. The loaded labels he was using about my abuser was significant, and I needed yto move out of denial.

Moving beyond that stage in my recovery, though, I think the labels lost their significance. Because ultimately, there is no way to understand why my abuser did what he did. And there’s no adequate label for it.

It’s not just because he was sadistic, or psychopathic, or even pedophilic. Because those labels don’t necessarily turn a person into an abuser. There are plenty of people, who genuinely earn those labels, that don’t end up doing what my abuser did. What he did? Was off the charts cruel. And I don’t understand it. I can’t understand it. It doesn’t make sense to a person like me.

There’s almost a reverse diagnosis process that goes on here: what your abuser did was sooooo terrible they must be a narc or psychopath, therefore narcs and psychopaths must be abusive.

Not so.

And ultimately, there isn’t any label that makes sense of the truly fked up things our abusers have done to us. All we’re achieving, by saying “All narcs must be...” is fuelling misinformation about the disorder. It doesn’t illuminate what we went through at all.

My abuser didn’t do what he did because he was a psychopath. Most psychopaths don’t do what he did. Maybe he was a psychopath - there’s no way for me to ever know.

What I do know? Is he did what he did to me because he was some kind of a fked up individual that they don’t have adequate labels for. He is a person that I could never understand.

And that’s okay. I can heal without an adequate label. There’s no label that adequately describes what I went through, nor is there a label that adequately describes what kind of fked up he is. The labels don’t do his fked-up-ness justice, because most people with a sadistic bent? Most pedophiles? Most psychopaths? Don’t do what he did. The labels are both inaccurate and insufficient.

 

[Rani G2]

Not all people diagnosed with NPD are abusive. I’ve met one of those

Yes @Sideways. Diagnosed a few years years ago.I am not abusive but I have been manipulative in the past and I am learning to be empathetic.

If I am honest, I dont truly care about other people ( I am not saying this to get attention). In my mind, there is a constant battle between self glorification ( I do believe I am very special and beautiful) And an extreme fear that I am actually worthless! This fear is being covered with degrading others... and thinking that they should honor me. It is a long journey and I do struggle a lot.

 

[Dana1010]

Assuming I don’t know what I’m talking about simply because I don’t agree with you? Pfft, yeah.

A few traits are not a full picture / are not determining the future acts of anyone.

LOL

Okay, knock yourselves out with the narcs and paths. (And lovely thresholders) Maybe you'll even be the lucky one to take their abuse virginity when they start acting like one.

Me? I'll keep my distance.

 

[Kubash16]

It’s interesting @Dana1010 because you’ve been given plenty of examples of people who fit the diagnostic criteria but don’t fit into an abusive personality. There was even a person who has been diagnosed that commented earlier, I noticed you didn’t bother to acknowledge them. But from what I’ve read of their story, they are hardly abusive.

However, I know I exhibited some abusive behaviors towards my ExH. We were abusive towards each other. Yet, I’ve been diagnosed with quite a few things and not one of them is either narcissism or psychopathy.

I also mentioned in my own diary that my stepdad doesn’t fit into any of those diagnostics and yet I think I’m safe to say he was highly abusive.

 

[Dana1010]

In my mind, there is a constant battle between self glorification ( I do believe I am very special and beautiful) And an extreme fear that I am actually worthless! This fear is being covered with degrading others... and thinking that they should honor me.

This kind of sounds like my mother.

If someone manipulates and degrades, I would consider that abusive. Perhaps some people here have a limited definition of abuse, is what the problem is.

I consider my mother abusive. She never struck me. She manipulated circumstances to degrade us, and make sure we wouldn't "shine" or have anything going for us.

@PURUSHA, do you go out of your way to be around people who are less than you? How do you react around another person who is special/smart/beautiful/accomplished/whatever?

 

[Ronin]

I'll keep my distance.

And how precisely do you tell your narcs and paths to stay away from, in the offline life?
(Not even starting on the online one, since anybody can be anything online.)

But, for real, how will you know who to keep distance from?
(While also claiming you do not understand the definitions themselves, and need more research on the topic. Which is totally commendable and cheers on getting the education.)

 

[Dana1010]

But, for real, how will you know who to keep distance from?

I won't know. I'll make educated guesses based on past experiences, books I've read and other quality information I can get on them. Will I potentially cut off some people who aren't narcs or paths? And maybe let in some who are not? Probably, yes. But I think I'll do better than if I just forget trying to diagnose Mr. charismatic, glib, big ego, status whoring, callous, sex addict, because I don't have any letters after my name.

 

[Sideways]

@Dana1010 - do you think there might be some value in avoiding people who display characteristics that, from past experience, you consider are (or are very likely to be) abusive? Rather than, say, avoiding people because of a mental illness they have been diagnosed with?

 

[Kubash16]

@Dana1010 - do you think there might be some value in avoiding people who display characteristics that, from past experience, you consider are (or are very likely to be) abusive? Rather than, say, avoiding people because of a mental illness they have been diagnosed with?

This ^^^^^^

 

[Dana1010]

do you think there might be some value in avoiding people who display characteristics that, from past experience, you consider are (or are very likely to be) abusive? Rather than, say, avoiding people because of a mental illness they have been diagnosed with?

Are you asking me if I think a person can be misdiagnosed? Yes, I do.

Are you asking me if I think it's possible that someone correctly diagnosed a narc or path could be harmless? Frankly, I don't.

I guess it's possible that a person could keep company with them for some time without being harmed. It's not the way to bet, though. If I knew someone was diagnosed a narc or path, I'd cut off all contact with them and advise others to do so too. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Kubash16]

To each their own, but I would caution you to relax on the over generalization. Especially when you admit you need more education on it. This is the sort of mentality that leads to things like the Salem Witch Trials, the Holocaust, a multitude of other things. They weren’t because just one person said go get these people. This mentality of this or that disorder needs to be avoided at all costs is really dangerous, especially if you are working to influence others to have the same mentality.

*** edited to add****

It wasn’t that long ago that this same mentality was applied to gays, blacks, Jews, insert unique demographic here. We’ve come a long way in acceptance in those areas and need to do so in mental illness. There is so much we still don’t understand about the brain, but we will get there. Through, patience, acceptance, education, and open mindedness.