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Rather miserable family health profile/history, not at all sure I wish to experience a 'natural' end...

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You are a successful person if you can be true to how and who you are, and be able to tell who that is when the pain is reduced. Connection holds risk, something that can't just be abridged intellectually. Sometimes starting with a plant or pet is a place to begin.

As to the title of the thread, I remember Thomas Merton saying along the lines of we will know only a brief second before the end that it will be so. It is said that connection most deeply enriches life and makes it meaningful. Maybe that is because you will be able to see that you are accepted (and treasured- it will be by some, not all) by just being yourself. Congruent with, and including, your strengths and weaknesses.

(Tbh, most people don't relate to other's strengths, more so their weaknesses or woundedness. Which revealing helps you both.)

You are a successful person if you can be true to how and who you are, and be able to tell who that is when the pain is reduced. Connection holds risk, something that can't just be abridged intellectually. Sometimes starting with a plant or pet is a place to begin.

As to the title of the thread, I remember Thomas Merton saying along the lines of we will know only a brief second before the end that it will be so. It is said that connection most deeply enriches life and makes it meaningful. Maybe that is because you will be able to see that you are accepted (and treasured- it will be by some, not all) by just being yourself. Congruent with, and including, your strengths and weaknesses.

(Tbh, most people don't relate to other's strengths, more so their weaknesses or woundedness. Which revealing helps you both.)

@Tinyflame Well, I agree people relate to each other's weaknesses and are even drawn to them. But since I've been battling PTSD, I look for people who can teach me a new way, because the family and folks I'd been hanging around didn't have those skills, nor did they have emotions with the exception of anger and hatred....so I try to make friends within my area of comfort/strength. So art is one place, music another. I come here to be with people who share similar feelings and experiences, and to know I'm not alone....but I don't think everyone gravitates to the weaker folks....maybe that is just me. However, I also believe when we are vulnerable, people unknowingly hook up with other people who will engage weakness conversations because of this weekness, they are drawn together-or they will seek to abuse (in my case). I'm real cautious about making tight relationships based on weaknesses, because I've gotten burned this way. But here on the forum, people just share-and that is just nice and supportive-that's my view, anyway and I don't see everyone here as being weak...or having a weakness.....I try to believe we all have something in common...and it isn't all bad.

I go to a T (someone trained and educated to know more than me) because I suck at the emotions, the social/personal communication, the rules (rules and I are great friends...I have too many rules that get in the way), and flaky internal communication. My T get's parts.....hence the attraction for me is that she knows more than I do today about that subject and I need to learn so I can be healthier. I see my T like I'm taking a long, intensive course on being a functional human being. Maybe I'm different, but I think different people's reasons to connect is different for each person they meet. Just a thought.
 
@Resilientbibliophile

I want to share a part of me, here goes:

For someone highly intellectual, as I consider myself, my # 1 defense was to sound eloquent, almost soulful, use words my T had to think about (so I was smarter than she at all times) and been admired for my eloquent use of the written English language (I loved when people asked what a word was that I used and they didn't know it-made me feel smarter than them.) I prided myself on my writing, and I was known as being VERY verbose and detail oriented at my place of work. I think I used the words to protect me at work, too...but I came from a family who never thought I'd make it through college, and I had to prove I wasn't stupid. I fought to get A's and as time went on, I got them because my mechanism for success was the English language......and my love of languages.
I honed my memorizing skills and memorized terms, new words, and made some words of my own up. I had learned that words meant something, they were going to be the key to my success-and people would see me as smart, no really gifted and then I'd be good enough. But I never felt good enough...no matter how hard the writer in me tried. My hard work paid off, and I'm a published author, a number of times over, and I find that there is my writer who writes with awesome similes and metaphors, flower language, about life to any given theme (but when the writer writes I found no matter how successful I was as a writer, or at work, that part really wasn't feeling satisfied, smart, and had to work so hard to keep that false sense of feeling good. I stopped writing for a while, and redirected....until I could feel other parts.

More recently, in the last couple of years, I found that there are other parts, parts of me that know many of the answers to questions I sought, but my other parts were linguistically inferior (and younger)-and didn't connect with my writer. How ironic? So, I put the writer on the back burner for a while and spent time with the other parts of me on communication and emotions. I can express emotions through my artwork, music, or through pictures and my poet can through poetry-sometimes well and sometimes not as well. I personally believe everyone has at least 1 inner child. My inner children didn't get the writer. I challenge you to find another inner part and talk to it, like your inner child and find out what it would like to do for fun. Children do like fun, but in my case, I hadn't let them....and now my life is richer and less chaotic for having acknowledged them on a daily basis.

It took a while to trust this place, myptsd, and not feel I had to use such grand expensive language. It was hard to change, but when the artist part started posting, or my poet part posted, they wrote differently and had an opportunity to share their gifts here, on the forum. That writer part was protecting me when I came here-still doing what it always did,trying to make me feel smart, but for some reason, I didn't feel like I fit in. When those younger parts were given space to grow, I started doing more poetry, clay, artwork, and cooking my whole self became a bit bigger, I guess you could say. My writer likes to tell stuff, reason everything, share opinions, and use lots of jargon because it make that part feel smart. I'll tell you, it overshadowed many of the other parts that felt stupid, unloved, sad, and like an outcast. While I'm a published author whose main complaint at work was that I was so detailed, it took them too long to read what I wrote(yes, I wrote mega pages with elaborate wording....to show my smartness and hide myself within my field of knowledge), I was missing the down to earth, plain old stuff like friendship, emotions, me contributing by bringing a gift to Santa gift exchange, and attending the birthday parties or baby showers of others. My writer part at work lacked a real life connection with others but tried to connect with just the right words (its hard to explain). I had to start journaling by hand which is a totally different skill and much harder-and more emotional at times. I tried drawing on paper, and tried different kinds of artwork that seemed appearling for some other parts to be happy. I'm finding everyday (even though I'd like to say that I made this fragment/parts thing up in my head) that communication with my parts has, and continues to make things feel better, more balanced.

I'm not saying my experience is you, or my story is pertinent to you, but I find your use of the English language.....very, very familiar and I totally relate to your ambivalence (and by the way, IMHO your writer part, if you believe in parts, truly excels in this department!).? I wonder what other gifts and interests you have besides writing?
 
including, your strengths and weaknesses.

I think I understood how you might have interpreted it, @TruthSeeker , though not exactly my intention. Would it be more helpful to substitute "less-than-perfect(ion)" in place of 'weaknesses'? I'm not meaning baring your soul, or even large-scale vulnerabilities, necessarily. Only one's human-ness.

I, too ended up tested for Mensa. Which tbh, I thought was a waste of time, and an interminably boring series of tests.

However- and I can't remember where I heard it quoted, though there are several people who've stated the same and I try to go by, if there's a simpler word, use it!

I do know I'm more prone to intellectualizing, for myself I think because it's a defense to avoid feelings, and maintain some modicum of control- the control of not having to feel them. It creates distance between what is 'out there', or around me, and what I feel inside. It's also a natural consequence of looping thoughts, state dependent memory fueling more memories of the same (and my mind's way of thereby proving that my cognitive distortions and fears and beliefs are justified,), and minimizing/ denying myself compassion. In other words- avoiding feeling. Just speaking for myself, but I like 'being' more than analyzing. And I can't really 'be' (myself) and be disingenuous at the same time. (Not to be confused with not being prudent, however; no one is obligated to share with others when it is not safe to do so.)

But I believe it's easier to despair or criticize than look for ways to change perception, take the risk of seeing and responding openly, with less regard for self-protection or outward appearances. JMHThoughts, though. Being vulnerable can also be, for example: not crying for one's self- but crying for another.

At the core, you are a worthwhile and valuable person @Resilientbibliophile , because you are a human 'being', not a human 'doing'. You are a success because you are 'here', and you will find your unique way(s) to express and live that. You are already! :)
 
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I was thinking of something too, it's hard to define (myself) as even ever having (any) intellectual capacity, and neither putting it to use, nor retaining it. I struggle now with reading a few paragraphs.. the other day I had to write out letters of the alphabet to remember what an 'N' looked like. :( So losing capacity is a bitter pill to swallow, too, and good not to let it define you, just in case. And under stress I can't often even speak in person, not really.

I'm harsher about myself, so I have a double standard, but I feel intellect and accomplishments, though they are great, take a backseat to someone's heart. What is more endearing is the person: their character, their history, their hopes and dreams and story.

I think it's normal and to be expected to question what our life means and has meant, what has been our motivation and influences, what has meaning to us, what fills our heart, and what our meaning and value may be. (But that might be just me. :rolleyes: )

:hug:
 
I think I understood how you might have interpreted it, @TruthSeeker , though not exactly my intention. Would it be more helpful to substitute "less-than-perfect(ion)" in place of 'weaknesses'? I'm not meaning baring your soul, or even large-scale vulnerabilities, necessarily. Only one's human-ness.

I, too ended up tested for Mensa. Which tbh, I thought was a waste of time, and an interminably boring series of tests.

However- and I can't remember where I heard it quoted, though there are several people who've stated the same and I try to go by, if there's a simpler word, use it!

I do know I'm more prone to intellectualizing, for myself I think because it's a defense to avoid feelings, and maintain some modicum of control- the control of not having to feel them. It creates distance between what is 'out there', or around me, and what I feel inside. It's also a natural consequence of looping thoughts, state dependent memory fueling more memories of the same (and my mind's way of thereby proving that my cognitive distortions and fears and beliefs are justified,), and minimizing/ denying myself compassion. In other words- avoiding feeling. Just speaking for myself, but I like 'being' more than analyzing. And I can't really 'be' (myself) and be disingenuous at the same time. (Not to be confused with not being prudent, however; no one is obligated to share with others when it is not safe to do so.)

But I believe it's easier to despair or criticize than look for ways to change perception, take the risk of seeing and responding openly, with less regard for self-protection or outward appearances. JMHThoughts, though. Being vulnerable can also be, for example: not crying for one's self- but crying for another.

At the core, you are a worthwhile and valuable person @Resilientbibliophile , because you are a human 'being', not a human 'doing'. You are a success because you are 'here', and you will find your unique way(s) to express and live that. You are already! :)

@Tinyflame Ditto all that! Intellectualizing was my norm, and yes....it shuts down the feelings and allows me to keep looping and allowed me to be distant from me. It was a huge wall between my feelings and myself....and once in a while, now can still get in the way but I recognize it. I felt more "human" when I was able tobetter manage that intellectualizing defense.
 
Another installment then, and maybe another later tonight for much is on my mind...

Just in short and only personally, if intellectualization and keeping matters at a discreet distance allows me to better understand what is too toxic or overwhelming to unearth by hand largely in isolation, then I'm o.k. with it. It helps too when one needs to self-advocate and cut through clutter when engaging health care professionals consistent with getting a message across economically, while if I wait for my bundle of worries to be dealt with in 45 minute weekly or bi-weekly face-to-face doses, not a lot of territory is going to be covered. A heavy case load weighing upon a therapist can undercut a personal capacity to remember story threads, and this can be terribly disheartening. I think I'd need to be of royal blood to rate the full attention of anyone! Now where did my personal servant go anyways?

With regards to various story threads that make up my story, in a manner of speaking I've done much work to calmly and coherently dissemble this dynamic and that. The stories are clearer and can be recited with greater skill as the years pass, but the toxic hurt and sensitivity to recall rooted in such never really diminishes. Something occurs within sight and sound, as so soon I'm down as though struck sideways near the knees.

Yes - abstraction away from a problem carries with it potential hazards. Someone I know pours herself into what might be termed independent study in a scholarly mold consistent with the belief that if she'd had engaged upper middle class professional parents in the habit of vigorously overseeing aspects of her teen years, a searing tragedy she suffered wouldn't have happened. I don't believe that she's capable of squarely facing the fact that yes - matters might have been different, but alas, perhaps they wouldn't have been and sometimes absolutely ghastly things occur to people almost randomly. She wants that sense of control, that conceptual ability to prevent recurrence of tragedy befalling others looking out - and who could strictly blame her for holding out faith for such? Still - what work she's done is stalled given the underlying tragedy the work is anchored upon isn't being faced or effectively processed; i.e. the material is 'too hot' and 'too personal' for there to be anything other than a tightly calculable cause by her standards. Her professional life has stopped - and she doesn't know it. We were scarily alike; i.e. reaching for sociology to exist in the heavens apart and away from the dissatisfaction of our deeply compromised selves. We spoke alike, dressed alike, recreated alike, etc. Whew! Little wonder that the bond was strong and carried obsessive overtones from her direction.

Some years ago I was given a sixty page research grant application intended to fund her continuing efforts to review, and maybe for possessing a somewhat fatalistic orientation towards where the relationship was going and yet imagining that I could somehow help direct her towards some path consistent with healing, I decided to afford her a fair if somewhat blunt review. I just didn't think that anyone else would take the time very deliberately and calmly help (?) in this way regardless of how and where things would go; i.e. I thought this was the stuff of love. Know that I was a bit clumsy and defensive, although in some way she absolutely needed someone to break through given she wasn't about to seek out psychological help independently. It was a huge responsibility and yet I tried however imperfectly to both respect the trust extended to me and act honorably in relation to what was at play.

What resulted was a profound and soul-shattering experience for her translatable as a string of phone calls consistent with support and nuanced explanation lasting about seven hours straight. Indeed - those surviving trauma are drawn to others who have traumatic legacies of their own - and often well hidden at that. For reading other materials consistent with illustrating the delicate nature of guiding the Ph. D. research of another for being an adviser mated to what psych trauma reading I've done, in particular I would and will pay far greater attention to the value of mixing the bitter with the sweet consistent with cultivating the best from another and always communicating understanding and informed support within the initial review surely. In public she's so controlled, but in private she isn't. Notice the same can be said about me!

I hope others have had (much) better experiences in therapy than I have, but all too often it seems this or that person staring back says altogether too little, or worse, seems intent only on burning time in-session consistent with getting through their day. It comes to the surprise of none that I'm more than capable of consuming all the oxygen in the room for my rapid fire speech, and this too can be a problem. In sum and at least for me, imperfect or incomplete strategies consistent with effectively coping are nevertheless strategies and are better than imagining that rescue will somehow come from without - or at least I tell myself such!

M.
 
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Well, sticking to the topic. My father was a drunk, my mother a wino, my brother created an incestuous scenario, and made living at home awful. I was only 9 and he was 2.5 years older. I worshipped the ground he walked on.....and there wasn't anyone else to play with. My father gave him the shed for a club house. I was his first member and there was an initiation fee.....I shalt say more about that. At anyrate, if I did what he said, he would love me and I felt what I thought was belonging. That went on a while, and finally I said I'd tell....and that was the end of our relationship. He retreated to being in a gang of sorts, and me.. He left after being the good child, and became the scapegoat when he couldn't please my father and he was getting into trouble and didn't have a regular job. It was about time I got to be the good kid....so I worked hard in school. Community college first, moved to the university, and then marriage-in that order. I was miserable and sick as a kid, and here I am again much older, divorcing keeping my father and no lie, in his 60's brother took another shot at good child role ......and shortly thereafter, died. I'm so glad he did....he had been waiting long enough almost 99 when he passed away. Who should I blame for my feeling like I have an undesirable existence? My parents suffered from what their parents taught them both, and they were shorted on emotional communication, how to parent, and personal communication. We all lived in our own shells, and when things got bad.....I dissociated, bro ran away, and my parents drank. Lots of trauma cause I didn't have the social skills and didn't know how to have friends, and it was a lonely childhood which set me up for all kinds of abuse my whole life. As I write this, I don't feel angry (and I think I should be but blaming them for their short comings isn't going to change it.)

@Resilientbibliophile I'm in my 60's, in the 4th quarter, you might say-I get the age thing. The clock is a ticking and I'm not wanting to waste time on blaming.....but I'm not sure I can bypass the anger thing and having to deal with it....in my upcoming future.
 
@Resilientbibliophile and @TruthSeeker . you've both said a mountain of truth from your pain, and I hope I can respond and do it even a little bit of justice. It's very brave for you both to reveal what you have.

This may be not of much use, but this is what came to me reading:
if intellectualization and keeping matters at a discreet distance allows me to better understand what is too toxic or overwhelming to unearth by hand largely in isolation, then I'm o.k. with it. It helps too when one needs to self-advocate and cut through clutter when engaging health care professionals consistent with getting a message across economically,
^^ I think you know yourself and limitations, so I agree to stay within your window of tolerance. Although intellectualization (for me) is a form of isolation. It starts out innocently as trying to understand but ...

And getting the necessary info across is required, but beyond revealing, only a start to processing, since the toxic and overwhelming pain is avoided to some extent, and that is what has to go.

if I wait for my bundle of worries to be dealt with in 45 minute weekly or bi-weekly face-to-face doses, not a lot of territory is going to be covered.
^^ Hence all the work outside of therapy- 'feeling', in and out of therapy. Expressing (even if it means screaming in your car with the windows up), in and out of therapy. Etc.

I've done much work to calmly and coherently dissemble this dynamic and that. The stories are clearer and can be recited with greater skill as the years pass, but the toxic hurt and sensitivity to recall rooted in such never really diminishes. Something occurs within sight and sound, as so soon I'm down as though struck sideways near the knees.
^^ Your pain is palpable. I think all of us who've tried to carry on and not addressed stuff, or minimize, relate to the 'weather report' delivery. But the toxic hurt and sensitivity to recall (great choice of words, btw) can't be healed intellectually (I don't believe).
imagining that I could somehow help direct her towards some path consistent with healing, I decided to afford her a fair if somewhat blunt review. I just didn't think that anyone else would take the time very deliberately and calmly help (?) in this way regardless of how and where things would go; i.e. I thought this was the stuff of love. Know that I was a bit clumsy and defensive, although in some way she absolutely needed someone to break through given she wasn't about to seek out psychological help independently. It was a huge responsibility and yet I tried however imperfectly to both respect the trust extended to me and act honorably in relation to what was at play.
^^ It sounds like you tried to respect that and suceeded, and did so with the best intention. I think the efforts were admirable, though she will need to follow her own healing path. Perhaps her focus is such because she can't accept that it could not be prevented, and is stuck there. But, she will still have to come to some answers herself. Perhaps one day what you wrote will be appreciated more by her more, she will be able to face it. It is easier to blame anything, or anyone else, or use the guise it will help prevent it for someone in the future. But all the work has to be on our own selves. There may be a self-belief she contributed- who knows? Whatever it is, it stills remains projecting away from, "this 'has happened', now how to heal? " It is not your fault the dam broke- it happens to all of us, eventually, I think. If it wasn't your review, it would be something else. (And as friends or whatever your relationship was, fair and loving to be truthful. (Although I would have done that privately. ) (And to spend hours debriefing or discussing- that topic or anything else, I think is important if you are/ were important to each other. But fair also to be open to each other's influence, or the relationship is not deep enough to withstand that).
those surviving trauma are drawn to others who have traumatic legacies of their own - and often well hidden at that.
Well, I somewhat agree but have a caveat there: I think eventually everyone experiences trauma, and everyone has wounds. I've heard it said, when we are drawn together deeply we have matching wounds. However, the healthier we are, and being distinct individuals, we may also have healthy, or healthier responses to dealing with the wounds, which we can learn from each other. We can give outwardly to each other (part of what love is, less focus on 'self', or 'taking'), and conversely, we can learn about ourselves (in any interaction), based on looking at how we react. For example, if someone pushes our buttons- what does it say about ourselves? Similarly if we feel hurt, disappointed, frustrated- whatever. The answer isn't the other person needs to change- we do. Or more specifically, I will say 'I' do, because it's teaching me something about myself. If when that is taken in to consideration, one can become more aware of the other person, know them more deeply. We can also reveal what is best in the other, and maybe if we trust each other learn to accept those good truths about ourselves. JMHThoughts though. We can help each other heal, by learning from one another. And by helping one another.

I think ideally it's a balance: between recharging and breaking isolation; not hiding in intellectualism but not dumbing-down, either; being one's self but sharing that where it's valued; supporting but allowing other's the freedom to be themself and follow their own path; giving care and receiving it; honoring or understanding the past but willfully choosing to build a new life after it.
 
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@Resilientbibliophile and @TruthSeeker . you've both said a mountain of truth from your pain, and I hope I can respond and do it even a little bit of justice. It's very brave for you both to reveal what you have.

This may be not of much use, but this is what came to me reading:

^^ I think you know yourself and limitations, so I agree to stay within your window of tolerance. Although intellectualization (for me) is a form of isolation. It starts out innocently as trying to understand but ...

And getting the necessary info across is required, but beyond revealing, only a start to processing, since the toxic and overwhelming pain is avoided to some extent, and that is what has to go.


^^ Hence all the work outside of therapy- 'feeling', in and out of therapy. Expressing (even if it means screaming in your car with the windows up), in and out of therapy. Etc.


^^ Your pain is palpable. I think all of us who've tried to carry on and not addressed stuff, or minimize, relate to the 'weather report' delivery. But the toxic hurt and sensitivity to recall (great choice of words, btw) can't be healed intellectually (I don't believe).

^^ It sounds like you tried to respect that and suceeded, and did so with the best intention. I think the efforts were admirable, though she will need to follow her own healing path. Perhaps her focus is such because she can't accept that it could not be prevented, and is stuck there. But, she will still have to come to some answers herself. Perhaps one day what you wrote will be appreciated more by her more, she will be able to face it. It is easier to blame anything, or anyone else, or use the guise it will help prevent it for someone in the future. But all the work has to be on our own selves. There may be a self-belief she contributed- who knows? Whatever it is, it stills remains projecting away from, "this 'has happened', now how to heal? " It is not your fault the dam broke- it happens to all of us, eventually, I think. If it wasn't your review, it would be something else. (And as friends or whatever your relationship was, fair and loving to be truthful. (Although I would have done that privately. ) (And to spend hours debriefing or discussing- that topic or anything else, I think is important if you are/ were important to each other. But fair also to be open to each other's influence, or the relationship is not deep enough to withstand that).

Well, I somewhat agree but have a caveat there: I think eventually everyone experiences trauma, and everyone has wounds. I've heard it said, when we are drawn together deeply we have matching wounds. However, the healthier we are, and being distinct individuals, we may also have healthy, or healthier responses to dealing with the wounds, which we can learn from each other. We can give outwardly to each other (part of what love is, less focus on 'self', or 'taking'), and conversely, we can learn about ourselves (in any interaction), based on looking at how we react. For example, if someone pushes our buttons- what does it say about ourselves? Similarly if we feel hurt, disappointed, frustrated- whatever. The answer isn't the other person needs to change- we do. Or more specifically, I will say 'I' do, because it's teaching me something about myself. If when that is taken in to consideration, one can become more aware of the other person, know them more deeply. We can also reveal what is best in the other, and maybe if we trust each other learn to accept those good truths about ourselves. JMHThoughts though. We can help each other heal, by learning from one another. And by helping one another.

I think ideally it's a balance: between recharging and breaking isolation; not hiding in intellectualism but not dumbing-down, either; being one's self but sharing that where it's valued; supporting but allowing other's the freedom to be themself and follow their own path; giving care and receiving it; honoring or understanding the past but willfully choosing to build a new life after it.

@Tinyflame Thank you. Quite helpful.
 
Do you do any volunteer work? Maybe it’s time to get out of your head and take a little space of self analysis and apply your insight to helping others. Sometimes when I’m the most down and feeling the most hopeless and worthless, spending time helping another will change my perspective quite a bit. You can’t change the world, but sometimes helping another can mean the world to them.
 
After I moved away from "jail" as I call it, my new neighbor asked me to teach her partner how to play the recorder. I had just moved and stayed inside, (my new upgraded jail) holding myself captive, cause that's what I was used to doing for years. Helping someone learn something new really helped get me connected with people, got me out of the house, I made a friend, and have a responsibility outside my own therapy stuff, work, and homework. I also had the opportunity to "get away from trauma" as my daily focus and talk about other interesting conversation. This has been really helpful.
 
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