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[anonymous]

I think Americans, period, need to let go of the old Russian hate still lingering around today. Knowing wha...

Nah, I'm holding on to it. The damn Russians took my relatives homes. They lost EVERYTHING. I think I'm going to hold on to that good ole Russian hatred. I'm even too afraid to do my ancestry DNA test because I don't want it to come back that I'm part Russian. Sad, I know.

<Posting as Anon only because people I know IRL know about my irritation and how my family lost it all to the Russians. I don't want to compromise my identity.>

 

[Deleted member 541]

@anthony If you don't mind....... You have your point of view on the subject and I have mine. I live here, you don't. This is my country, not yours. I believe what I believe and you have your beliefs. I believe that Russia hacked our elections. I believe that Putin is evil. I believe that Trump is just like him and that they are in bed together to turn out country into an puppet country for Russia. I believe that Trump is in deep debt and that Russia has backed him and he owes them. I believe that Russia DID whatever they could to assure Trump would win the election.

I could be 100% wrong on all counts, but it's what I believe and until I decide or it's proven to me that I am wrong by my government.

Not being disrespectful, just voicing my beliefs.

 

[Rumors]

@anthony If you don't mind....... You have your point of view on the subject and I hav...

What could trump possibly get from turning the United States in to a Russian puppet? Add this up and it doesn't equal out. In one sentence you say he is an ego maniac and basically a power hungry narcissist. Why would he want to be Putin's puppet? He has NOTHING to gain. If anything he wants Putin to be his puppet.
I remember when Obama was elected and there were conservatives saying he was Muslim and going to turn us into a Muslim order state and enforce sharia law. How ridiculous. Like that could have ever happened anyway, but how ridiculous. This argument about Trump holds as much water as the one about Obama. They BOTH were narcissistic ego maniacs. They BOTH want to go down in history as these great men who made America great. Fact is, it was great before they ever got here. Truth is, the banter in this thread does NOTHING to help. You can bitch all you want, but he is the President until he is not. I would find something to align with and get busy. That is what I did the last 8 years. I think Obama was an economic disaster. The only reason why we scraped by was because of quantitive easement and the government printing money. That was initiated by Bush and never intended to last 10 freaking years.
Fact is, he isn't as far off target on some things as you think. His delivery is terrible. He is an awful personality. He offends even me. However, I don't have to like him to move forward. He is elected and that is where we stand.
One of the topics is the Paris agreement. The US was unproportionally paying into a system that was defunct from the very start. We paid in and China paid nothing. We paid billions and Russia paid nothing. How can that be fair to the American tax payer? It's not. We need to have strict environmental laws. I don't disagree with the Paris accord on that issue. I do not align with trump on his lack of understanding in this area. So, I will voice my opinion, contact my lawmakers, and push on fronts here locally to bring better ideas of clean air to the table. I am going to do something other than talk about it....
just my opinion. It is page after page of trump bashing. I don't want to post bc the backlash will be unbelievable or I will get thread banned bc my opinion is too controversial. The bashing should end. Anthony is right on target about the Russians. You can choose to live in this theory that we are going to be Russian puppets but it is a complete waste of time. Trump is far too narcissistic to allow that to happen.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@Rumors It's apparent that you are a Republican. I'm a Democrat. I loved Obama, and I hate Trump. You apparently dislike Obama and like Trump. We have opposing view points and I'm sure nothing I could say would convince you otherwise and there is absolutely nothing you could ever say that would convince me to like Trump. I hate him.

I believe that Trump is Narcissistic, and that Putin is also, but he's also a mater manipulator that can outdo Trump. Putin is evil, and Trump well, I'll leave my hatred of him to your imagination.

Please don't bother trying to teach me anything about Trump/Russia as I'm not interested. I will believe to believe until my government says differently!!!!!

 

[Rumors]

@Rumors It's apparent that you are a Republican. I'm a Democrat. I loved Obama, a...

Gotcha. I vote for who I think will do the best job. I found Obama to be uninteresting and inept. It isn't about hatred. He spent a lot of money propping up government but didn't really do much to change the landscape of our future economically.
I do find it interesting that the first month of Trumps Presidency all of the Obama fans came out to start talking about how bad they have it and how good rich republicans have it. If it was that bad, where were you when your Messiah was president? Everything was all good then... it is hypocrisy at its best. Makes me sad that people get so dug in on their perspective they can't step outside the box to see the bigger picture. No, I don't like everything Trump does. At all! I call that out when I see it. I do align with certain things, but I don't feel the need to cram those down anyone's throat. Time will tell if they make a difference. We are still reeling from 10 years of no real gain in our GDP. However, the fact remains that based of evidence, there is nothing out there that substantiates anything you claim. It is propaganda, conspiracy theory, and all the other fairy tale things our media decides to cram down our throats so that we will read it and self destruct believing it. It seems very unreal these days..

 

[Deleted member 41765]

the fact remains that based of evidence, there is nothing out there that substantiates anything you claim. It is propaganda, conspiracy theory, and all the other fairy tale things our media decides to cram down our throats so that we will read it and self destruct believing it. It seems very unreal these days..

Except there is. You are asserting that the house, the senate and the FBI are all constructing investigations based on magical thinking? Or are you engaging in a bit of that yourself?

 

[Anarchy]

Regarding Russia,
How is it any kind of threat to the united state?
List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia
The institution of the Russian state is a basket case, and is living way beyond its extremely modest means, Which can only lead to it becoming even poorer.

The art of practical politics consists of keeping the electorate in a constant state of alarm and hence clamorous to be lead to safety, this is achieved by menacing them with an endless string of hobgoblins, all of them imagined - Henry L Mencken, writing circa 1916

 

[Tornadic Thoughts]

I think it's fairly safe to say that anyone who wholeheartedly believes that anything is going to change for the better for ALL the people by whoever gets voted into that (or any) particular puppetry position is automatically basing much on magical thinking.

That's why everyone gets so angry and distraught, perhaps. They get tired of having their individually perceived and highly hopeful fairy-tales go wrong each and every time, just on different levels and at different speeds, all with different labels that serve a little too well in pissing each other off while not really making much headway with actual issues.

Then we have the "news" which is operated by the entertainment industry feeding us all of these supposed "facts" that supposedly strengthen our arguments. Then we have folks strongly believing everything they read on various websites, using the likes of like wikipedia and snopes to verify what they read. Two areas I was strongly encouraged to highly question and take with a grain of salt by various professors during my brief time as a college student, but folks defend those types of things with such strong passion.

One of our local farmers made a comment once that really stuck in my brain, something along the lines of, "We ask for too much salvation through legislation." The same system that imprisons us and renders us helpless in many ways based on policies and procedures is the same one that promises to take such good care of us. You really can't make this shit up.

 

[Justmehere]

I agree with conservative David French's assessment here: There Is Now Evidence that Senior Trump Officials Attempted to Collude With Russia

I also think Russia wasn't trying to get involved in order to get Trump elected, but becuse they are trying to fuel chaos. There are some really terrible people whispering in the ears of Putin and Trump, like Bannon and Dugin, who flat out openly state they seek the "deconstruction of the state" and chaos. Dead Link Removed

I don't think it's so much about the threat of Russia as a state. That's a bit of a distraction. If the US comes undone, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

There is a major shift happening in the US right now. Americans are losing basic trust in major institutions. It was happening long before Obama and Trump, and will continue when Trump leaves office.

So many people are so focused in the US right now about what team jersey others are wearing, if it has a D or R, and I think it's time to put down the jerseys and focus on principles.

When people focus on principles, most Americans are able to find some common ground. When we stop looking to polices and people to save us, and start looking at principals that unite us, that's when we will truly be alright.

 

[Deleted member 41765]

I think it's fairly safe to say that anyone who wholeheartedly believes that anything is going to change for the better for ALL the people by whoever gets voted into that (or any) particular puppetry position is automatically basing much on magical thinking.

I agree with this.

When people focus on principles, most Americans are able to find some common ground. When we stop looking to polices and people to save us, and start looking at principals that unite us, that's when we will truly be alright.

And I agree with this.

My own magical thinking comes into play through a desperate hope that proof of Russian collusion will get rid of this administration. All of it. Every last one of them. Of course, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Anarchy]

Regarding the "oath keepers" constitutionalist militias etc

There's a spectrum of populist thought, running from authoritarian, all the way to libertarian and even a few anarchists.

It's important to know which part of that spectrum you've got stood in front of you,. Whether it's the coercive authoritarian variety, or a more libertarian strain.

Just as Noam Chomsky (left anarchist) can hardly be compared to the authoritarian end of socialism Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot

Or Ron Paul (capitalist who believes in an absolutely minimum state) can't be compared to - ok, that's difficult, because most of the authoritarians turn out to be socialist of some sort when they're examined closely - so I'll say Rockefeller

A bunch of the constitutionalists and militia types are actually their own flavour of libertarian, and can't be realistically compared to the authoritarian representatives of populism (KKK, Aryan nation...) Despite the conflation that appears from the likes of the SPLC, and gets gleefully spread around.

There's a good explanation and examination of the libertarian wings of capitalism, socialism and populism in an essay by Roderick Long (he' prof of philosophy at Auburn, and I think currently identifies as a left / bleeding heart libertarian anarchist)
Well worth a look, even if you're not a libertarian of any variety
http://praxeology.net/libclass-theory-part-1.pdf
http://praxeology.net/libclass-theory-part-2.pdf

 

[scout86]

What could trump possibly get from turning the United States in to a Russian puppet?

I don't think turning the US into a Russian puppet is very likely. I think it's more likely, as @Justmehere (I think it was you) said, that the Russians are just having fun messing with things. What's in it for Trump? Hard to tell. Maybe part of it's ego. Maybe he owes money to someone big in Russia? Maybe none of the above or something else. I'm sure there's a reason he refused to disclose his tax returns and I'm sure that reason isn't really that he's being audited by the IRS.

I believe that Trump is Narcissistic, and that Putin is also,

I'd be willing to bet that Putin is really a psychopath. I agree about Trump. And, in their dealings with each other, I suspect "psychopath trumps narcissist."

ok, that's difficult, because most of the authoritarians turn out to be socialist of some sort when they're examined closely

I suppose that depends on how you define "socialist".
According to Merriam-Webster, it's this.
Definition of socialism

1. 1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
   
   
2. 2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private propertyb : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
   
   
3. 3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.

And, I think most authoritarians end up meeting the technical definition because they want everything for themselves, and THEY are the state. But, some of the people who seem like they'd go to that extreme, if they could, are totally opposed to the idea of socialism. I'm thinking of the extreme right wing in this country, who are perfectly willing to tell the rest of us we HAVE to live up to their ideals. (Hence no funding for Planned Parenthood. etc). Doesn't matter, at some point, if they start out as "left wing" or "right wing", they end up in the same place.