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News Us politics - read first post before comment

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I asked what “people’s” opinion on the matter was,

My opinion:
I think it’s a bit hypocritical of so many of these leaders to suddenly be against it.

More of my opinion:
I am in agreement with Bill Clinton, Bushes, and President Obama, on their opinions about the capital of Jerusalem and moving the embassy there. I am in agreement with all 93 senators that voted for the 1995 act to move the embassy.

The Middle East is a mess. It would continue to be a mess even if the embassy was not moved.

I understand it will heat up things a little. That’s always been understood and yet so many agreed it should be done.

Some have an attitude (not saying that’s anyone here) that the location of an embassy is going to make or break peace in the Middle East. This fully underestimates the issues in the Middle East, and overestimates our power in the Middle East. The world doesn’t revolve around the US. The adversaries to Israel have been around for centuries long before the US was a glimmer in a pilgrims eye.

It was a good move. I hate to praise anything Trump does, but this was a good move. I wonder why he did it now, but it was a good move no matter the reason. That is my opinion.
 
Since 1995 the world has changed. The US is seen as an aggressor, a bully that sticks their nose in other countries business. We get involved in other countries business when we shouldn’t. We tout our military prowess when other countries try and stand up for themselves or don’t agree with us.

Personally, I think this move is just another move to insult the Muslims of the world, snub our nose at them, and the have speeches the next day on how we WILL secure our borders and we listen to no other countries, we do what we want to do.....

This IMO isn’t about making lasting peace, it’s about domination, being the bully and making statements that will only lead to more unrest. I just hope to god that another 9 11 or worse doesn’t happen. But I fear it will.
 
From my understanding, previous presidents have done the right thing in not recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Remember, in the memory of Middle Easterners, Jews who survived Hitler and refuged in Israel are a recent memory. They totally deserved to go and live there, but they didn't deserve to then usurp Palestinians' right to live there, too.

The big point in the U.S.'s previous refusal to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital is based on our historical and the UN's historical insistence that Israel work toward a two-state solution with the Palestinians, which would divide Jerusalem between Israelis and Palestinians, which -- who knows -- may be the best solution.

On a personal note, I spent some time in Cyprus in 1988 (now better known as a little country rife with money laundering, but I had no idea at the time; I just went there to be with my fiance at the time). We went to the capital of Nicosia to register me at the embassy and my heart was broken into tons of tiny pieces as I walked up the sidewalk to the door next to a tent city of Palestinians who had been living there for God knows how long and striving to get an okay to go to the U.S. I will never, ever forget the horror and the shame of accidental birth that allowed me to enter that building, while hundreds suffered right outside.
 
The US is seen as an aggressor, a bully that sticks their nose in other countries business.
My opinion. We aren't just SEEN that way, we ARE that way. Sometimes maybe it's from a sincere, but tactless effort to help. I suppose there's been a certain amount of good intentions in a lot of case. But some of it comes from a calculated strategy for national gain. Pretty much the same emphasis on "winning" that we see in our national politics. Sometimes just because we seem to think we have all the answers for everyone and any nation that's smart will listen to us.
Personally, I think this move is just another move to insult the Muslims of the world, snub our nose at them,
You might be giving Trump too much credit. Personally, I think it's about 2 things, he made a campaign promise. The promise didn't mean anything to him, but it was a bone he could throw to a bunch of the people he wanted to get to vote for him. He still needs to keep them on board. Then, I also think he just likes Netanyahu. This is a win for Netanyahu. It's Trump, giving his school yard buddy a present. Except that Netanyahu isn't REALLY his buddy and Trump is too much of a narcissist to recognize that world leaders don't LIKE him, they use him when it's convenient.

No, it's not about peace. It's about ego and "winning" in US politics. It's about people in power trying to use other people for their own ends. The people of Palestine have just as much right to a country as anyone. The city of Jerusalem has significance to three major religions. The original plan to make it an international city seems reasonable to me. It we can both Israel and Palestine, and they both want to have their government offices there, I've got no problem with that, myself, but no one owns the city. Actually, I've always thought they should move the headquarters of the UN to Jerusalem, along with the headquarters of the international court.
 
I think we are skipping over why this is considered to be a winning move in US politics.

It’s because of this verse, http://biblehub.com/genesis/12-3.htm, and many others, that Christians and Jews believe they are called to bless Israel. That is why conservatives pushed Trump to do this. I believe Trump did it now to gain favor with them because of other difficulties his administration is facing and will likely face in the near future.

Recognizing Jersusalem as Israel’s capital closes no doors. Israel would never agree to any peace agreement where Jersusalem is not the capital. It could be a Palestinian capital as well. That is not any more or less possible.

As for unrest after this, we should not make decisions to embolden terrorism. Just because there will be unread doesn’t mean we should not do what this law has required since 1995.

Oh, and we were seen as aggressors back in 1995, and long before then, since the 1950’s and 1960’s. I believe we need to move the embassy and pull out most of our troops from around the world. We do not need to be the policeman of the world.
 
For some people, that verse is a big part of it, true. There are also places where it suggests that the second coming will happen after the temple is re-established on the Temple Mount. But, not even all Christians and Jews agree on that interpretation.

We have a secular government. Those verses can be interpreted multiple ways. There are people who think that the original covenant between God and the nation of Israel changed when they rejected the messiah, for example. And the irony is, as far as Trump is concerned, I'm reasonably sure it's nothing but superstition. It's calculated to keep the fundamentalist Christians who are in Trump's camp in his camp, come hell, high water, or the election of a credibly accused pedophile. Because, oh yeah, there are people who can spin scripture to make THAT look like it's ok too. (I did say I think they're spinning it. Personally, I don't think is says anything of the sort.)
Recognizing Jersusalem as Israel’s capital closes no doors.
I think, as far as the Palestinians are concerned, it does. And, as far as them being terrorists goes, if something similar were to take place here, I'd like to think I'd be in the front line, defending what I think of as my home. This is very much a case where one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.

This whole thing has been a mess from day one. The establishment of Israel after WWII was, at least in large part, the world reacting out of guilt for dropping the ball with regard to Hitler & co. (Note to world, never underestimate the potential of a bad guy to do bad. Note to US, we have some bad guys running the show here these days. "Bad guys" is not meant to suggest an actual gender limitation on the people involved.) That was a nice idea that totally overlooked the fact that there were already people their who thought it was their home.

Here's the thing about THAT. People have been kicking other people off their land since the dawn of time. If you're the one doing the kicking, it probably seems fine. If you're the one being kicked, not so much. If, later, someone decides to right the "original" wrong, they're going to end up wronging someone else in the process. By the same logic that created the nation of Israel, this country ought to be given back to the remaining indigenous peoples. Interesting thing about that. Where I live was fought over by the Dakota & the Anishinaabeg. (And that's only the part of the history of the land that I know.) Which group do we give it back to? What year do we pick to be "fair"? We have the same problem basically everywhere in the world that there's major conflict.

Maybe, as a species, we ought to come up with a way to quit trying to undo the past and just respect each other going forward. I seriously doubt you can FIND a group that hasn't done something bad to someone else at some time. We actually can't undo the creation of Israel without invoking the same problem, so the Palestinians probably need to find a way to live with the Israelis. It would help if the Israelis didn't treat them as second class citizens or worse.
 
@Justmehere You stated. “Recognizing Jersusalem as Israel’s capital closes no doors. Israel would never agree to any peace agreement whereJersusalem is not the capital. It could be a Palestinian capital as well. That is not any more or less possible.”

I disagree with this statement, you have your opinion though. I believe that the Palestinian’s see this as “closing the door” for them to share or to believe that Jerusalem is their capitol also. They weren’t included in the speech when The US recognized Jerusalem as the capitol. They were left out of that speech. Intentional? Misguided? Or forgotten? Really doesn’t matter, the damage has already been done and the irruption of violence is evident that the Palestinians and Muslims are feeling the slight. EVERY country just about begged Trump to NOT do this at this time, even his own generals and Republican Party, yet he did.

Since January Trump. Has made it very clear that Muslims are not welcome in this country. They have won a partial ban, extreme vetting, and are tightening our borders when it comes to allowing Muslims in. And now they were excluded from the speech and are probably feeling pretty pissed off at this point.

I don’t wonder WHY Trump chose this time to announce the moving of the embassy. Anyone with half a brain could figure it out in a heartbeat....
 
Do you expect Israel to change and no longer declare Jersusalem as the capital of Israel?

Do you expect them do this as the only way for Palestinians to say that part or all of the capital of Palestine is Jersusalem?
 
It is my opinion that peace doesn’t start with imposing our Americans ideas of what other nations should and should not do. In getting upset about the embassy, just an embassy, being moved to the already declared capital of a nation, and saying this shut the doors for other nations to make up there own minds about their own capital - I believe this puts us in a higher position and place than we should be.

I believe that it is Israel and the Palestians are the ones to declare their own capitals. Not the US.

They were killing each other before we existed, and I believe they would be even if we did not exist. Because they have grievances that go far beyond us. Can our actions help or hinder the situation? Sure. But this isn’t all about the US, for once.

Israel is allowed to exist. The UN has already decided that. Isreal, not the US, decides their capital.

Our nation passed a law to recognize it. If our nation wants to tell Isreal to do something else and declare another city a capital, we can pass that law and I’m pretty sure Isreal would laugh (and be disappointed in their ally...) and not change.

My point is to keep this in perspective. Isreal declared Jersusalem their capital. Not the US. Isreal is never going to give up Jersusalem as their capital, no. matter. what. we. do. The violence won’t stop until that happens.
 
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