News Us politics - read first post before comment

[joeylittle]

HR 620 is a reaction against excessive lawsuits and claim falsification.

I’m not defending it. I’m also not surprised it’s happening in a republican controlled government, and a culture where people have gone somewhat overboard on invoking disability status.

I feel for the folks who genuinely need disability support. I’m not sure where I stand on those who can claim it, and have their situations improved by it, but can also suffer through. I’m one of those people. Since PTSD, flying is very difficult for me. Occasionally, I can’t make it onto the plane. Or, at least, I believe I can’t. But that’s only sometimes.

Should I be able to fly with my ESA, or should I be restricted to pharmaceutical + cognitive support?

(I know the laws governing planes are not the same - I’m not comparing laws, just discussing the principle involved.)

John Doe has a diagnosed mental illness, believes he needs a SD to help him manage anxiety in public. Dog will alert for anxiety. Do his rights win out over the rights of the store clerk who has serious, emergency-level allergies?

Could John use another technique? Can the clerk use their epi-pen?

 

[Deleted member 541]

@lostforgottensoul Where do you think all directives come from to overhaul things in our government???? They come from the top!!!!!!!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Do his rights win out over the rights of the store clerk who has serious, emergency-level allergies?

Could John use another technique? Can the clerk use their epi-pen?

Normally someone with that bad of an allergy will be medicated beyond an epi pen. Service dogs in America are under a super strict grooming standards (it used to take me maybe 30 mins to fully groom Chopper and now it takes hours and he is a super short coated dog) for that reason. Think of all the pets (whom aren't under any grooming standard) that go places that are pet friendly like Lowes, most Home Depots I hear, pet stores, parking lots/cars you walk by, Tractor Supply, (many other businesses that don't sell food along with even many work places), apartment complexs, a friends house etc. If you are going to break into an all out allergic reaction with us just walking by and not touching him or being near him (as you can remove yourself or if you are the clerk there is a big desk between you and him) then you really need to be medicated.

Someone at my therapist's that we sat next to seemed to have major dog allergies and she just got up and move to another chair.

Should I be able to fly with my ESA, or should I be restricted to pharmaceutical + cognitive support?

What if pharmaceutical + cognitive support doesn't work? I still disossiate deeply and move from point A to point B having zero memory of how I got there reguardless of what I do or what I take. Spent years trying everything there is to try. Why must we be forced into that decision? Most of the time, those with service dogs (I'm speaking service dogs as they are covered under the ADA, ESAs aren't and HR 620 is gutting the ADA) has tried everything else. I've spent over 4 grand (and I have a few grand more to go plus add $2,500 to that if someone is buying the dog from a breeder and owner training times how ever many dogs they will need in their lifetime/time needing a service dog) and gave up every min of my day, and very doing more physical things then I can really do, for over a year now to train Chopper. Program dogs can go for 25 grand (plus knowledge of dog training, time, and money to keep up their skills as a service dog is training for the rest of it's working life). No one is spending that sort of money, time, energy, and dragging and dog everywhere (which is like carrying a baby everywhere) if they can be helped by other means. Getting ready to even make a quick trip out takes twice as long as it's like you are taking another family member out with you and all of their stuff you must also carry. It isn't easy. And if one can be helped by pills and cognitive support, then they wouldn't be dragging a service dog around with them.

But it goes much further then psychritric service dogs and what you can do instead. Some that are paralyzed don't have a choice. They must use a wheelchair. No wheelchair access? Too bad! No handicap door? Too bad. Too small of aisles? Too bad? Maybe I dislike wheelchairs in my store. Kicked out? Too bad! Many with service dogs are blind or have a TBI with seizures and without the guidance or alerts they can die. Look up service dog Colt. Even with alerts she recently fell and cracked her head open because someone stopped Colt from alerting and a distraction in a store caused him to miss an alert and she fell right in a store line and hit her head. She has seizures everyday. Muliple times a day. Denying those service dogs? They don't have a choice of pills and cognitive support. Their lives depend on their dogs. But that's too bad.

Yes, sue happy needs to stop but to stop it by allowing discrimination and 210 days to fix something is no way to do it! The ADA covers a very wide umbrella of disabled and many of those people don't have a choice. And many of those people are using medical aids (like a wheelchair) already. This isn't just about allergies to dogs, service dogs, and fear of airplanes that can be helped by other means. This is allowing discrimination to all disabled by all and any business whom will have 210 days to fix something all while most of these disabled people don't have any other choice.

 

[joeylittle]

The ADA covers a very wide umbrella of disabled and many of those people don't have a choice.

I understand. I'm only talking about those who do have a choice. Many don't have an option to go without their aides. Some do. There's no way of knowing how many nuisance suits or charges are brought by people who are taking advantage of an unregulated system. Disability and access laws work (largely) on the principle of the honor system. People start to abuse that system, and it will (eventually) be challenged.

I'd also be surprised if this bill made it through the senate without revision, but we shall see.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I'd also be surprised if this bill made it through the senate without revision, but we shall see.

It absolutly needs to be revised. I understand many are abusing the system (just like those with food stamps that work and make more then I do) but to impose this on all disabled is ridiculous!

I have a paraplgic cousin that is paralyzed from the waist down and also has limited use of both hands. He works and was on Flip The House twice. But, he relies on an electric wheelchair and disability access. Without it he cannot function. He also drives using a modified car with controls on the steering wheel. He does a lot that many would not think possible but still relies on disabilty access (and he gains disability assistance and still works. He cannot get married to his longtime girlfriend due to loss of needed disability assistance as this stuff is super expensive so though he works, he cannot afford it all). Taking that away along with businesses not being held accountable to have disabled access (such as disability parking, disablity electric doors, and so forth) and you take away his (and all of our) entire ability to function at all. And isn't that what the government wants? For us to be as functional citiztians as possible? Without work I cannot spend money. I mean, come on!

 

[Deleted member 541]

@lostforgottensoul I’m beginning to think that they would rather all people with health issues and disabilities just die, rather than spend the money on us.

I’m thinking though that many businesses may just do the modifications because it will enhance their businesses and because they aren’t the government and they may actually have feelings......

 

[Justmehere]

The ADA actually doesn’t cover service dogs and airline travel. So HB 620 won’t change much there on a legal level.

For service dogs on the ground? Sure. It will get harder. PTSD is not my only disability too. My life personally would become a lot more difficult, and a lot less full. Business AND government generally does not accommodate the disabled unless they absolutely have to do so.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I’m thinking though that many businesses may just do the modifications because it will enhance their businesses and because they aren’t the government and they may actually have feelings......

but it's asking for businesses to discriminate. It allows businesses to refuse access with a service dog (or any medical device) and we no longer have the ADA to back us if this passes. It allows business to not spend money on modifications. SeaWorld in California has this issue already. No wheelchair access on belchers. A service dog team (Pawsandlove whom works there) couldn't access it. Her girlfriend (whom they refer to as he) had to carry her.

Business AND government generally does not accommodate the disabled unless they absolutely have to do so.

YES! It will get harder for ALL disabled. For ALL reasons. And if they no longer have to and have 210 days to make the changes, that will make ALL disabled lives impossible! .

 

[scout86]

I’m beginning to think that they

I'm totally among the first to go all conspiracy theory on this stuff, but I think it's worth considering who "they" are and who they aren't.

I actually think there IS a "they" and I kind of agree with you. But I don't actually think "they" = "most people". I think MOST people are fair, reasonable, and easily led. Not always a good combination.

I've heard some outlandish stories lately about things like :"support turkeys" (I think it was a turkey) on planes. A thought. I have absolutely no idea if any of it was true. They were stories referenced by people trying to make that point that the whole support animal thing has gotten out of hand. @lostforgottensoul , you've made the point, more than once, that there are a lot of fake, or imitation, service animals out there masquerading as the real thing. So there's something there. It's also true, I'm sure, that the owners of older buildings have had to pay good money to try to adapt them and make them handicapped accessible. Keep those thoughts at hand for a bit.

The Republican party is well known these days for being "pro-business" and "anti-regulation". (I think I made a crack some time back on my personal thoughts on their idea of "the war on poverty", so I'm kind of clearly on a side.) So where they are coming from on this isn't as much attacking people with disabilities as it is helping their friends in business have an easier time of it. Do you think it's occurred to them that this will have a negative impact on people who might actually vote for them? Probably not. Because they don't hear from people like YOU that often. They hear from the people who pay for their campaigns.

I've already fired off a comment to my elected representatives. The thing is, they're all Democrats and they all already agree with me. It's more important that you contact them if they DON'T agree with you. They might blow you off, but they can't do that with too many people or they'll lose their jobs. (And get rehired to lobby for the people who've been paying for their campaigns, but that's a separate issue.)

 

[Deleted member 541]

Maybe I’m a bit thick in the head here. All things with me are possible. Ok, so I can see maybe the big corporations not wanting to deal with disabled people, cause most of them are selfish and greedy anyways. But, I don’t think that the smaller places would turn away people with disabilities and not try to accommodate them. Look around you. I’m not sure where you live @lostforgottensoul soul, but where I leave there are tons and tons of disabled people. Wheelchairs, obese that can’t walk, people missing limbs, stroke victims, the list is endless. I just can’t see places and businesses turning away their business because of disabilities.

And support dogs, we have tons of them here. Shit 3 weeks ago a guy brought his ferret into BJ’s.

I just don’t think that businesses will turn people away or not accommodate because of this. They need the business too.

@scout86 The “they” I mention..... IMO, is most of the GOP.....

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I've heard some outlandish stories lately about things like :"support turkeys"

Shit 3 weeks ago a guy brought his ferret into BJ’s

Both already illegal and neither exist in ADA law. The ADA recognizes dogs and miniature horses ONLY. I have heard of a few states allowing a service cat but that is very controversial and I am not sure if those laws would hold if that person had an issue.

ESAs are different and can be any animal however are not recognized by the ADA and are only recognized by the ACAA and FHA ONLY. HR 620 is about the ADA and the ADA alone so ESAs aren't in the convo.

There are no such things as service (or support) pigs, turkeys, peacocks, ferrets, or anything else but dogs and miniature horses by the current ADA. There is no bill needed for that. That is law now.

I just don’t think that businesses will turn people away or not accommodate because of this. They need the business too

If they don't have a wheelchair access and need to make wheelchair access and need to spend a ton of money and aren't forced to have access by law then I can see issues there. I can see issues in many ways really.

 

[Deleted member 541]

Well, in all honesty, I don’t think this will pass. And if it should pass, it will apply to NEW businesses, because most of the businesses now are already up to code on this.

Besides, you can just stay home, eat your harvest box of food, pretend that you have meds and that you’re not getting evicted......:O_o::roflmao::banghead::):)