News Worldwide impact of the novel coronavirus (covid-19)

[Freida]

And I honestly don't think we are going to be able to change how those people think.

The funny/sad thing around here is that people don't notice until it hits someone they care about - even if they don't die. Then they end up on the news saying "I wish we had taken it more seriously!" :rolleyes: But ya -- until it affects people personally they aren't going to give a crap about preventing it. It's kind of like if they can just ignore it long enough it will go away. Then you look at texas and florida - where they had their heads buried in the sand -- and think. Huh. too little too late

I really think when we look back on this we are going to learn that we shouldn't have tried so hard to prevent the first round. Especially in countries like America where is all about "wearing a mas violates my rights!!!!" Because now we have a crushed economy and we are going to have the huge number of deaths anyway. Maybe it would have been better to let it run it's course -- then people would have paid attention.

I'm glad I'm moving to the middle of no where. I really, really am. I'll have my homestead and go to town occasionally, talk to you folks, and work on projects. That's a selfish way to look at things too, but running away is my best tool.

Ya - I"m looking for escape routes. I'm ok with staying home -- which was kind of a surprise to me because I've always been the out and about kind of person.

 

[blackemerald1]

I really think when we look back on this we are going to learn that we shouldn't have tried so hard to prevent the first round. Especially in countries like America where is all about "wearing a mas violates my rights!!!!"

^Those countries that decided to do the 'let it rip' strategy were so quickly overwhelmed with the infection & death rate that their populations turned on their governments and demanded policies that reduced those statistics. The downside is the economic problems that go with those policies.

In terms of flattening the curve the idea was not to eliminate the virus completely. If on the way to suppressing the infection rate that happened then happy days! The strategy was to give time for hospitals FR's etc to get ahead of it, protect the vulnerable who would be less likely to survive the infection & learn more about it so treatment could be tailored. Almost all of that has been achieved in Australia and whilst we seem to have spikes here and there overall, we are slowly opening up in domestic terms but overseas travel is out of the question for the foreseeable future. Makes me glad we're an island continent tbh.

 

[Sideways]

But ya -- until it affects people personally they aren't going to give a crap about preventing it.

To be fair, I think it wasn't that people weren't paying attention, but more, their attention was on other aspects of a pandemic hitting, particularly the economic consequences of even mild social distancing measures and borders closing.

A lot of people very suddenly had no way to put food on the table just a few months back. It's hard to prioritise other things I think when you're suddenly out of a means to feed your family, or keep a roof over their head.

It doesn't make naivety about the importance of safety measures like wearing a mask ok, but it does throw some perspective on it.

Maybe it would have been better to let it run it's course -- then people would have paid attention.

Some governments took this approach - 'herd immunity', let it run its course. The toll was huge, and in those places where the government could afford to do a U-turn on that policy, they did. To save lives (like, a lot of lives), to save their healthcare system, and to save what they could of their economic situation.

The situation now here? It feels a lot like people are over it. We had low rates of infection and mortality (at huge economic expense). Pandemic-exhaustion, stress burnout, credit cards maxed out, people wanting to see their family. So, even here, where we went pretty hard pretty early, and capitalised on contact-tracing and closed borders, the 'human' element is still a real factor. People can only handle so much for so long before they start looking for alternative ways forward.

ETA Cross-posted with you @blackemerald1 !

 

[ms spock]

I really feel for what everyone is going through with Covid19 deaths and the spread of SARS-CoV-2. My best to you all.

In Australia we have been extraordinarily lucky.

However, Victoria is having what they are calling a second wave of SARS-CoV-2. It's not on par of the course in so many poor people in so many places, but it is stressful.

But we are lucky there's a group of 1000 strong of dock knockers/tester folks.

Keilor Downs and Broad Meadows are the two with the most community transmissions. Then Maidstone, Albanvale, Sunshine West, Hallam, Brunswick West, Fawkner, Reservoir and Pakenham. These ten suburbs will have a targeted testing blitz because of their high rates of community transmission.

We are still staying home and are encouraging anyone else who can to do so. Some people have no choices.

They are going to test 50% in some of those suburbs in Victoria. There will be testing vans at the end of a lot of people's streets. Australia is very lucky that we have both the political will to trace community transmission and the physical resources to follow up on the rising infections.

 

[blackemerald1]

The situation now here? It feels a lot like people are over it. We had low rates of infection and mortality (at huge economic expense). Pandemic-exhaustion, stress burnout, credit cards maxed out, people wanting to see their family. So, even here, where we went pretty hard pretty early, and capitalised on contact-tracing and closed borders, the 'human' element is still a real factor. People can only handle so much for so long before they start looking for alternative ways forward.

^Yeah I agree. Everyone is exhausted from doing the right thing :hilarious: But it's true... we've followed all the rules and had amazing success in so many areas. I mean I look at most of the rest of the world and think God! How lucky am I? :eek: sorry rest of the planet. :)

But at the same time, when I can, I want to be able to move freely around my country without worrying that I'll contract the virus. I've not seen people of most varieties except through a screen for almost six months.

Tbh...at times... I'm quite over it and I would be one of the easiest people to persuade that there's no place like home. I do like shutting the door on the world and I have. But even for me, there are limits. I noticed that my desire to break out idk go shopping feeling!:wtf: was worse immediately after restrictions came in. Now :meh: Though it would be good to get on a plane and go see relations. I'm fantasising about a road trip but of course borders are an issue...

I really think we need to get a grip on the washing hands, wearing masks & keeping appropriate physical distances. And business, governments are just going to have to bite the bullet and maintain the cleaning strategies they used initially. We've all got to be a bit more mindful about this virus and any of the other transmissible diseases that we've sort of come to accept.

The Victoria State Government and the Federal Government don't seem too fussed over the spike in infections atm. They just want to know where it is and try to contain it. They've both said they expected this to happen - so ok I'll accept it too. :cautious:

What I'm not happy with is that in Victoria o/seas visitors who are mandated to be quarantined for 14 days - don't have to undergo tests. What a silly thing to not do. Theoretically in that case people could be positive and infectious and released into their community to infect wherever and whomever they meet. In NSW if a person refuses they must quarantine for a further ten days so that takes total quarantine time up to 24 days - that seems safer. And anyway I'm sure a person can be forced to take the test but where's the sense in not taking it coming from?

 

[Sideways]

And anyway I'm sure a person can be forced to take the test but where's the sense in not taking it coming from?

The majority of people in forced quarantine now are people returning from overseas. And my guess would be that plenty of them have reason to be suspicious of a government-funded, hazmat-suit-wearing worker telling them to stick stuff up their nose and in their mouth. Assumptions we get to take for granted ("this is totally safe, I can totally trust this alien-looking government spook who has me locked up, without charge, and just wants me to put that there swab in my mouth") aren't shared globally I'd reckon!

It would make sense to me if a lot of people are reacting to that something more along the lines of, "How's about you get me a lawyer that speaks my native language before I start drinking your koolaid, 'cause I just survived the last 3 months by boiling or deep-frying the hell outta anything I put in my mouth, and the government where I was were the last people who seemed interested in helping me out..."!

 

[blackemerald1]

Pretty sure that everyone returning to mandated quarantine are repatriated Australian citizens who have been thoroughly versed in the whys of quarantine in their own language.

I've seen the cards & the translators greeting travellers at the hotels explaining everything. So not sure if it's a cultural/language issue. Tbh I've seen such relief on their faces to be back here. Not suspicion or the like.

It seems the Victoria government are taking legal advice about what to do regarding testing so if I stumble across any developments I'll let you know. But I would have thought that since they can make a person quarantine there would be sufficient legislation to require the tests. But I suppose, this is for someone on a higher pay grade to determine. Don't want anyone suing do we?

 

[Sideways]

My understanding is SA is currently taking steps to make the testing in quarantine mandatory.

Until then? There's still the human factor. Some people have this virus for months. And if the government puts its own citizens in solitary confinement, without any evidence you even have the virus...how do you trust that you'll get to see your family at the end of that 14 days if that test comes back positive?

For you and I? Who haven't spent the last 3 months trying desperately (and spending thousands) trying to get home to our families? Taking the test is a no-brainer. We've been here witnessing people getting to go home, even when they're sick, to isolate themselves.

But I can understand why someone would get off the plane, finally home, and not want to jeopardise things by taking that test. As long as it's voluntary, you have the assurance of seeing your family in 14 days if you keep your mouth shut when they come round swabbing. When you're taken straight to isolation, after what a lot of these folks have been through to make it home? I can understand a lot of people who don't have symptoms not wanting to jeopardise this final part of their ordeal.

 

[blackemerald1]

And if the government puts its own citizens in solitary confinement, without any evidence you even have the virus...how do you trust that you'll get to see your family at the end of that 14 days if that test comes back positive?

^Ah hmm not quite solitary confinement though is it? At completely taxpayers expense & it's often a five star hotel, with wifi & medical staff plus whatever else you might need being catered to? All free... There are worse places to be lets face it... even here in Australia! So you cannot go out for fourteen days... oh sorry if I sound a bit cynical but we here have been in lock-down for months now. I would wager I'm far more solitary than they are!

I can understand a lot of people who don't have symptoms not wanting to jeopardise this final part of their ordeal.

^And how f*cking selfish is that attitude from their perspective???? Go right ahead! Hide the fact that you may or may not have the friggin thing you & the Australian government have moved heaven n earth to get away from in another country?

Never mind :oops: - you can spread it around when you get home by failing to disclose your symptoms and refusing to take the damn test! Really short-sighted and selfish imo

And btw many, many repatriated citizens have not paid for their own air travel to get back. The Australian government is paying the airlines to go for a trip here n there to pick them up. There is no way ever that they have paid the full price to get back home. Pleadings of mercy and other messages have been hitting the foreign affairs department for months. One of the things holding them up... lack of numbers. They didn't avail themselves of the last flights out before countries closed their borders or in some circumstances they could not leave when told to do so. So they continue to dribble back in on intermittent flights of which the Australian government is paying a small fortune for permits to land.

Really? I think taking a small test to determine your status isn't a lot to ask.

 

[joeylittle]

I really think when we look back on this we are going to learn that we shouldn't have tried so hard to prevent the first round.

In my little corner of the US - I'd say, no, it was a good idea. We've had a manageable first round, are slowly opening back up, and for whatever reason - the population is co-operating, and while we do anticipate a spike (round 2), those that are monitoring the infection/illness rates are (cautiously) optimistic.

States tend to have their own "personalities" - patterns of behavior. The situation in many parts of Texas, for example...I feel so badly for those people and I'm grateful for the members here sharing their experience and insight. I think Texans have always had a strong streak of independence, and a kind of hubris that goes along with being on such a huge chunk of very difficult land. Doesn't surprise me in the least that there was a mindset about individual freedoms mixed with confidence and fearlessness, and that led to less investment in taking precautions, which turned into a scary, bad spike.

I think states/regions behaved in other ways that aren't surprising, in hindsight...people in major cities more easily grasped the danger inherent in population density, because they live it every day. People in states with large (but not over-crowded) cities didn't uniformly get on board, and as long as it was close to an even split - half-ish going into mask-and-distance mode and the other half staying more casual about it - well, that meant that "flattening the curve" was never going to work.

So yes - in those states, the people that tried weren't able to make up for the people who didn't. But - those people (who tried) were less likely to get sick themselves, depending on how careful they were. That alone makes it hard for me to think that it wasn't worth it, in the end.

I agree that it's terrible how many people in the areas that are getting hit harder now are going to be even more delayed in getting back to work, earning a living, getting the state's economy going again. But that's not the situation all over the nation. Definitely still too early to be reading national trends, IMO - I wish the pundits would stop trying and focus more locally, that's where the important data is.

 

[Sideways]

Really short-sighted and selfish imo

Absolutely agree.

Your original question was "where is this attitude coming from", though. And I can understand why, if it's optional to get tested, a lot of people in that quarantine situation might want to just stick out the 14 days and go home.

Wrote other stuff. Edited out cause it was dumb.

 

[ms spock]

Letting it go through is perhaps not the best.


Sweden's lax COVID-19 response caused too many deaths, country's top epidemiologist says

In late May, Sweden's overall COVID-19 mortality rate was estimated at 39.57 deaths per 100,000 residents; at the same time, the U.S. mortality rate was estimated at 30.02 deaths per 100,000 residents, according to NPR. Norway and Finland, both bordering Sweden, instituted stricter lockdown measures than their neighboring country, and at the time, each had fewer than six COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 residents.

Dead Link Removed