News Us politics - read first post before comment

[Justmehere]

Fair point. Technically, Trump wasn't in the lead to win the presidency.

I wouldn't expect the republicans to come up with a plan their own party can get behind for quite some time. It could happen....

Remember, this is the party that had SEVENTEEN people running for president and Trump won the nomination via a divide and conquer path. He isn't a guy who unites people of differing views even in his own party very well.

Bills can't be passed into law without at least some unity at least within the GOP, and they are a divided squabbling mess at the moment over healthcare, dems too. They all seem to unite around one thing: attacking the other party. Yep. Both major parties are excelling at that, but not at working together to run the nation well. I believe it will be our downfall if we don't change course, and healthcare will go down the the ship.

Obamacare isn't working. I don't want this bill to become law.

But I also don't celebrate how incompetent the leadership and parties are at working within their own parties or each other.

 

[Deleted member 41765]

healthcare will go down the the ship.

Yes it will. Also, "Obama care" has worked for me. For a number of years I was without health insurance. I don't work for a business or corporation. I'm a mere teacher at small school, also a wildlife rehab worker. We work on park rec land. (I won't even begin on that).

But I also don't celebrate how incompetent the leadership and parties are at working within their own parties or each other.

I am surprised to say neither am I. And it is also true that as a humanist, conservationist, etc, I am disgusted with the lack of morality and ethics (they are not interchangeable) that have marked us post election.

 

[scout86]

I keep wondering if part of the reason the insurance companies are acting as they are might be that THEY want to see the ACA fail. There are definitely problems, it's in no way the best possible set up. But the old system was better for the insurance companies, wasn't it? Insurance the healthiest, pay out as little as possible, price the sickest out of the system....

Like I said before, the real problem seems to be things are expensive and hardly anyone can afford to pay for either health care or insurance. You can't solve THAT problem by refusing to pay for stuff. That's like saying 'i can't afford the rent, so I just won't pay it'. You either need cheaper rent, more income, or both. You can't solve health care by just wishing people luck. (OK, I guess you actually can, because that's the proposal, it's just not a solution.)

 

[Deleted member 41765]

You can't solve THAT problem by refusing to pay for stuff. That's like saying 'i can't afford the rent, so I just won't pay it'. You either need cheaper rent, more income, or both. You can't solve health care by just wishing people luck. (OK, I guess you actually can, because that's the proposal, it's just not a solution.)

I almost disagreed with this, as I know not one person, professionally or otherwise who would refuse to pay for anything (ok, most things) particularly for healthcare.

But I agree that health insurance is another (American) big biz enterprise. Yes, I think they want ACA to fail. What a mess. After my initial health care reform meltdown, that I think you were witness to (thank you for your patience) I am heartened to learn that my state will attempt to institute singer payer health care, and has the means to do so.

 

[Rumors]

The system favors the insurance companies no doubt. If ACA had read that insurance companies are required to offer coverage, it would have been unconstitutional. So, insurance companies can pull out of areas for individualized care but still offer commercial policies. I had to drop my individual family policy. Not only was it $3200 a MONTH...no shit...but they discontinued individual coverage in my area. I went back and picked up a commercial policy. 3200 a month was hardly affordable and not what was promised under ACA.
So much of what we read are skewed numbers and perception. When they tell us 23 million will loose insurance if ACA is repealed is probably not correct. 4 million ACA enrolled participants fall in the "under 26" rule and came back on their parents plan. 13 million were Medicare expansion enrollments. There were approximately 7 million individuals that chose to enroll in ACA who had no prior coverage. Still yet, people, millions of people, have NOT enrolled. Actually, there are still more uninsured Americans than insured. Approximately 30 MILLION uninsured Americans. What does that tell us? ACA probably isn't affordable! There are still people slipping through the cracks? The 7 million new enrollments weren't enough to offset the 13 million, nearly double, the amount of paying participants.
I'm not here to argue the NEED of health care. We just have to figure out how to fund it and make it fit within the guidelines of our constitution. Sad but true... if we could take away the lifetime pensions of those asshats in Washington, we could go a long way. They beat all I have ever seen.
I don't deny the plan offered by Mitch McConnel and company is probably a wreck. I am not a fan of the man. He reads too much of his own press. Fiscally he falls somewhere behind Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank. I am truly disappointed in all of Washington, democrat and republican alike. I hope you all share in that disgust. They are like petulant children.

 

[scout86]

o much of what we read are skewed numbers and perception.

I have no problem believing that's true. I wish there was not only a way for the public to get accurate information, I wish there was a way force Congress to use accurate information.

In my own case, I have insurance because of the Medicaid expansion. When a Republican was elected president, I just assumed I'd be back to being unable to afford insurance, it was just a question of how long it would take. I went most of my life without it and am pretty comfortable with the idea that, if i get really sick, I'm going to die. I just think this is a stupid way to run a country.

I live in a rural area. We have a few pretty good small hospitals. They generally do what they can to take care of people with limited means. But they can't afford to treat people for free. The ACA has been a help for those hospitals. If they have to close... Well, in a lot of cases around here, it's at least an hour to a big hospital. That's a lot in an emergency. It's also a lot for a regular appointment. There had got to be a better way to do this!

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Still yet, people, millions of people, have NOT enrolled. Actually, there are still more uninsured Americans than insured. Approximately 30 MILLION uninsured Americans. What does that tell us? ACA probably isn't affordable!

Nope, it isn't. My dad was trying to take it out for my step mom, whom is disabled but cant get disabilty and whom is uninsured. ACA was so much through Fl Blue with ACA reinbursement. However, that reinbursement changed, reduced by half, before they could take it out. Therefore couldn't take it out because they couldn't afford the new amount, which doubled. I cannot understand why it is called Affordable Care Act when it is not affordable. Nor is it doing what it was intended. Giving insurence to those that really need it but cannot afford it. Plus its shit if you do have it, it covers way less then group and you have to fight for claims to be covered. Why should it be less? Don't these people, usually sick people in some way, deserve the same amount of coverage as we have as those on group insurence? And why do you have to fight for the claims they do or say they cover?

There isn't probably about it. ObamaCare sucks ass and needs to be replaced! It is dying anyway as insurence companies pull out. I do agree HealthCare needed reformed and doing so was a step in the right direction but ObamaCare isn't "it".

 

[Tornadic Thoughts]

One good thing about US politics and the ripples it creates through its various actions is the ongoing and increased motivation it gives me to continue to learn more so I can build up my personal self-care practices and to continue doing all I can to effect positive changes within my immediate reach.

Those are the particular ripples I must focus on to maintain my health and sanity. Everything else is just an energy vampire that I can't afford to keep feeding.

It should be pretty clear by now that we can't rely on something as unstable as what it has become through the years to stay firmly in place, or to even be geared towards genuinely helping humanity as a whole.

It sickens and infuriates me to know how they've created so many dependencies on things that can only be provided through their failing and over burdened systems.

Reading the news reminds me of something I happened upon and read a couple years ago that mentioned until the lion learns to write, every story will glorify the hunter.

 

[hodge]

I think one of the most serious and basic problems with the U.S. right now is that people do not agree on what facts are. We have lots of people agreeing with our 16-17 intelligence agencies who are unanimous in determining that Russia hacked into our election. (I am among them.) And then we have the Trump base, who don't believe any of it.

I don't know where we as a nation go from here. The investigations will go on because it seems there is plenty to go on. But if some 30% of Americans (Trump's base) don't believe it's real, wtf?

I am totally mystified and often furious about why they would believe Trump over our savvy, experienced intelligence agencies, but, there you go.

Even if Robert Mueller comes to the worst absolute conclusion -- that Trump went along with the Russians for his own personal financial benefit, there are probably 30% of Americans who won't believe that outcome of an investigation that is entirely above board and honest. What do we do then?

How do we prevail for freedom and justice against a portion of our population who will not recognize truth when it bites them in the face????

I feel like I'm living in a nightmare. It doesn't help that my mother and brother remain staunch Trump supporters against all real-world evidence that should convince them otherwise.

 

[anthony]

Do you think it has to do with the American cultural upbringing and thus experience of Americans, with conspiracies, secrecy, war, and such @hodge? More a split in American belief systems? Most other countries who don't have that type of culture, they aren't split about such people as Trump. Other facets, yes... but horrible people who should never be in charge of a country? Most countries just don't suffer that issue. Which is what brings me to believe its more an American cultural raising problem that divides the nation.

 

[Casey_03]

I think one of the most serious and basic problems with the U.S. right now is that people do not agree on what facts are

Incidentally, this is one of the desired effects of certain methods of KGB propaganda. There's been a lot written on this topic in terms of Russian state propaganda and the Kremlin power vertical -- that the Kremlin basically wants its citizens to have no idea what "truth" actually is, so it releases dozens of narratives, often conflicting ones, to create doubt and make it impossible to know for sure which version is the truth. I think that was the true goal of Russia's interference in the election - to create the same kind of uncertainty in the West it has been fueling for years back home. And by doing so, to completely undermine faith in democracy and America's electoral process. "Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible" is a great book on the subject. Pomerantsev is a good writer to follow if you're interested in how Soviet propaganda has carried over into modern times.

 

[hodge]

You are so right, Casey. Thank you for saying it better than I ever could have, as you have so profound knowledge about it.

@anthony, I really don't know. That is a great question. I don't know if it's so much cultural as it is dependent upon personal characteristics. I was raised in a lower-class setting and was subject to all the prejudices I recognize in Trump supporters today, yet I did not succumb to them. And plenty of other Americans raised in similar circumstances haven't, either. I think it's a personality thing more than a cultural thing, because, yeah, personality and learned values can certainly triumph over cultural influences.

This is as good of a working hypothesis than any I've seen to date: ‘He’s their mother’: Psychoanalyst explains why Trump’s supporters are like children of an abused parent

And, yet, you are right, Anthony -- how the hell have we as a nation managed to do something like this, when no other western nation has?

All I can say for sure is that tons and tons of books will be written about all this.

Meanwhile, I am glad for you guys in Australia and elsewhere that you are not under this creepiness. Please pray for us or whatever you deem you can do. We need all the freaking support we can get.