Why The Rage You Ask, Ok, Here's Why.

[Sleeping Dragon]

You're right Sarg,

It's not my job to protect the world from the rich, or punish them for their sins. But damn, I'd sure like to smack one of the ass holes just for being an ass hole.

OK, OK junk yard dog, time to lay down in the sun.

 

[vikingr12]

You're right Sarg,

It's not my job to protect the world from the rich, or punish them for their sins. But damn, I'd sure like to smack one of the ass holes just for being an ass hole.

OK, OK junk yard dog, time to lay down in the sun.

Only one? I've got a list starting with a certain butter bar lieutenant.

 

[Sleeping Dragon]

Ninty day wonders......they're definately a piece of work. I'm sure there are good ones somewhere, but I never met any.

 

[vikingr12]

This one was West Point. And a chickenshit. Followed the Regs to the letter. Words that I agree with but have always been leery whenever I heard them. He's the one that got the regulation changed from No pickups in a hot zone to, use your own discretion when he wouldn't let us suit up to rescue a bunch that got caught in an ambush. No pickups in a hot zone, he said.

He wore Class A's to work. Says it all.

He was very close to death by his own men.

 

[Fargo1]

Fargo,

A good friend and ex-Marine, talks of abandoning the junk yard dog. He tell how the guy who owns the yard takes this big dog and trains him to viciously gard the property. The pooch is left on his own each and every night. His survival depends of being the meanest on the block, a stone cold killer.

When the junk yard closes the old man is upset because the dog bit one of his neighbors who was poking him with a stick. The stupid old fart actually blames the dog, and feels no responsibility for the problem.

This world is full of stupid old men who don't understand that even a junk yard dog deserves a place in the sun.

SD

Absolutely! Though I don't believe that most people don't think that Old Junkie deserves to lie in the sun, its that they don't think about it at all.

The training of that junk yard dog is typically accomplished by inducing constant fear into that dog over extended periods of time (beatings, starvation, etc.). Then when he is all alone in the yard, he is barraged with fear (sounds of metal creaking: Is it someone come to hurt me, etc.). When the junk yard closes down, the old man doesn't take the dog to "sit around in the sun" training. He doesn't even think about what Old Junkie has been doing for the last five years, he just takes him home with him expecting Old Junkie to be a good dog, sit by his side and grab his slippers (and hopefully a beer).

Just as the military doesn't send us to "How to be a civilian" training when we muster out. Here's your DD214. Don't let the door hit you in the ass when you leave. The reasons for this are many:

• They might need you again. So leaving you on standby is prudent.
• Its damn expensive to train people. Our governments and people don't want to spend it.
• Humans have spent a huge amount of time learning how to train soldiers. But haven't spent the time to learn how to un-train them.
• Plus many, many other reasons.

 

[OldDoorGunner]

Again, no expert here. But this is how my therapist described it to me (paraphrasing and all mistakes are purely my own).

Why do we get angry? When an animal is threatened, there are three choices: Fight, Flight, Freeze.

Threat = fear. When we feel threatened, fear of what will happen in the future is it's root. Anger is a survival tactic developed to cope with threats.

So now let's look at the Fight/Flight response.

1. Fight. When you or someone you are protecting is threatened, you choose (or have no choice) to fight. When this happens, your brain hides your fear from you by creating anger. It does this by pumping adrenaline and other chemicals into your system. These chemicals flood your system, make you stronger, reduce pain, etc., so that you can fight better.
2. Flight. Run away! When you feel fear, the best protection is to remove yourself from the situation. The same chemicals above also allow you to run faster and be more perceptive of dangers.
3. Freeze. Sometimes animals that sense danger freeze in place. This has two effects: If they sense a predator and they stand perfectly still, maybe the predator won't see them. Or when their brain starts flooding their body with chemicals, their system is overwhelmed and shuts down.

Anger is a response to fear. When you feel angry, it's because you feel fear. That fear can be obvious — you are being mugged. That fear can be hidden — something happened that you subconsciously determined was a threat. When we are angry, most people can't see their own fear, because anger is designed to hide fear!

Our biology is still driven by instinctive level responses. Pheromones that we aren't conscious of, still signal our bodies its mating time. Similarly we are instinctively always on the lookout for threats. We often see threats even when none exist and our body responds. If there is no threat, then you have generated inappropriate anger. You get angry to hide some kind of fear (fear of looking weak, fear of looking stupid, fear that someone will "get away with something they shouldn't", fear that your partner will leave you).

My therapist believes that the ultimate goal of therapy is to put your rational mind back in charge of your primitive mind. To this end you have to understand what your fears are (hidden and overt) and to learn to understand your instinctive responses so that you stop reacting automatically and inappropriately.

All that being said, I'm a loooong way from her goal. So, 1,000 jumping jacks. By the four-count. Ready? Begin.

Nicely put Fargo, I agree with some of what you said. And my answer to it is Oh No, I'm f*ckED!!! (NOT)

However I have heard the same thing from my therapist. This is what I told my therapist; you know you guys and gals really think you know what you are talking about. When in fact you may only know maybe 10% of what the f*ck is going on in a person that has been in heavey combat and has PTSD. If you did know, why all the new programs every few years. (like CPT) ?

I have been looking outside the box for some answers. Lets look a Fear, where does it come from? Adrenaline, yep this is the switch. So lets take this Adrenaline into combat.....I will use myself here, as being a DG in a GunShip working one mother of a hot LZ. We flew to this LZ 18 times and expended all ammo each time. So flying to the LZ, the closer you get to the LZ, the Adrenaline starts going in to you system. At the LZ your Adrenaline is now at 100+% the whole time you are in the LZ (I chose fighting). Now you are leaving the LZ to rearm.....The Adrenaline is now going down as you feel safer. Now remember, we did this LZ 18 times, and the same thing happen with the Adrenaline every time!!! The next days missions, you may only go through this 5-6 times. Mission after mission, days afters days, time after time.

Here is my point with the therapist, they are dealing with Fear. So why am I dealing with this Fear? Easy, I made friends with the Adrenaline, I had to!!! I got f*cking hooked and not just me but my body/mind and it wants it's fix!!! I believe this to be a big part of PTSD. So our minds and body do things so we will get a fix.

I have been trying to quit smoking since 83, I can't quit (as most with PTSD) I did a deep study about nicotine and one of the things nicotine does is it releases Adrenaline!!!!

Adrenaline is something that should be looked at in dealing with PTSD. Hell the VA thinks that can get a person with PTSD to quit smoking in 12 weeks....I did called and talk with the head Shrink in charge of the quit smoking program about this. He was a nice guy for a Shrink, he did agree with me, quitting was not going to happen in 12 weeks. He said maybe a year or more if you had PTSD....or never......

J R

 

[Fargo1]

Well that's the rub J R. You (we) have PTSD which is a whole other thing from anger and the Fight/Flight response. We've been trained (re-socialized, brainwashed, whatever) to react with the Fight response. Soldiers that Freeze or Flee aren't very useful.. Anthony does a much better job of explaining it Link Removed. And we have been wounded by our traumas (experiences).
Man, when you flew into that LZ those many years ago, you were shit scared. I was shit scared driving my RHIB up that f*cking river. Somewhere in that we got stuck there.

THAT is why you are still dealing with this fear.

Drinking, smoking, chewing (my nicotine of choice) are all methods of self medication. My therapist has told me not to even attempt to quit chewing until I've got my 'activation' levels down... To be honest, at this point the drawbacks of chewing are the least of my worries. When I don't really spend that much time in public, who cares if my jaw falls off?

The fear/anger response is pretty powerful. It is a survival mechanism that pumps all kinds of good chemicals into you. You get addicted to it. Not only the adrenaline, but the situations... Which is great when you are being all soldiery and stuff. But, back in the civilian world, it's not conducive to reintegrating into society. Its also not conducive to living a happy, healthy life. It hurts you. It hurts your family. It hurts your friends. It just hurts.

The challenge is to break the addiction. Break the training. Break the memory paths that the amygdala uses to trigger the responses. Break the inappropriate anger responses. To do that, we have to dig deep and go back into our unhappy place. Which is f*cking scary...

 

[OldDoorGunner]

I read the link to Anthony piece, nice read. Made me think of a question from basic, "Whats the point of the bayonet for men?" To Kill!!! Over and over...and......over.

I hate to say this.....but the truth is, I got to a point when flying missions, (whatever) I no longer felt the fear. (It had changed to something else, just did not give a shit) Some how in my mind, I just accepted the fact I was a dead man....(maybe a DG/CE thing) they can't kill a dead man! Thinking back on it now......That is some hard cold shit, for a 19 year old kid Soldier, to be thinking. (A new door? Do I want to open it? Maybe, but at my age do I need to?)

You said "go back into our unhappy place. Which is f*cking scary" I call that place Pandora's Box..:eek: Yes f*cking scary works!

 

[JarHed]

Hope this doesn't start a flame, but here goes.

Regardless of all the science that can explain the why of what we have that I find interesting as well, it's irreverent. I say this because you know when you're f*cked up and have problems. But beside that you have to decide to do something to improve your life. When you come to the first realization and then start doing something; ie, like seeing a psychologist, that's when you're on the right road and know it. Resisting the things that will help you only means that you won't get better or it will take a lot longer. We all come to that on our own.

Like quitting smoking, since it was brought up. I smoked more than 3 packs a day. Never thought that I would ever quit or want to. Then I decided to and did. Haven't smoked in more than 40years. Wasn't easy, that's all I'm saying. Understanding the science behind why I smoked was interesting but I was the one that had to do what was necessary to quit.

I know vets with PTSD that have it really bad. I've suggested that they get some help or go talk to someone, anyone. They won't or can't is what I get. There are probably more of them out there than are getting help and treatment. I didn't know what this shit was for more than 45 years. Not big on suffering. Rather make a few others suffer. :LOL: Anger will always be a tough one for me but I try to not let it control my life. Sometimes I do OK and other times not.

I've been through the analysis phase and research part of this condition. Now I just try to make each day I get as good as I can. Good or bad it's the only one I'm sure of. It's early so sorry if I'm rambling a bit. We here spend a lot of time trying to figure out a better way to go, at least we're on the right road. Just my opinions as always. Hope ya'll have a great weekend.

Jar

 

[Sarg]

One damn good thread!!! My head hurts.

Some how in my mind, I just accepted the fact I was a dead man

After sliding down that razor blade, I stood up over the scope, stuck my chest out and said, "come on, you MFrs, kill me!". I think I really wanted to die, anything to stop the noise in my head.

But I didn't. Apparently, I was destined to live with this shit for the rest of my life. I looked to cancer or something equally hideous to rid this of me. "You're disgustingly healthy" my new MD declared. As I write this a haze of cigarette smoke covers the monitor.

Disgustingly healthy. So, I've got a long, long walk up this hill.

Sarg

 

[Drgnner]

This is so interesting. I think I am doing really great as far as anger goes. I remember the rage. I dont like it either! Then this morning while at the local convenience store getting a cup of coffee and a carton of smokes, some creep gets so close to me in the line that had I had to turn around and look at him until he backed away... Too close enough to touch me is just too close. I give people a lot of space in line. Im glad "that look" is enough to make people give me my space. I really think Im normal!

Once, I sensed someone climbing up my ass so I began to turn my head when I noticed in the mirror that she was also holding her nose and making that awful face. The girl behind here was laughing quietly. They must have been friends. I knew I smelled bad. Sweaty hot, barn smells and animal smells. I laughed out loud when I saw what was going on! Oh shit I just made myself laugh again! hahaha

 

[Drgnner]

I read the link to Anthony piece, nice read. Made me think of a question from basic, "Whats the point of the bayonet for men?" To Kill!!! Over and over...and......over.

I hate to say this.....but the truth is, I got to a point when flying missions, (whatever) I no longer felt the fear. (It had changed to something else, just did not give a shit) Some how in my mind, I just accepted the fact I was a dead man....(maybe a DG/CE thing) they can't kill a dead man! Thinking back on it now......That is some hard cold shit, for a 19 year old kid Soldier, to be thinking. (A new door? Do I want to open it? Maybe, but at my age do I need to?)

You said "go back into our unhappy place. Which is f*cking scary" I call that place Pandora's Box..:eek: Yes f*cking scary works!

JR, I'm glad you're here and getting treatment. I made it 27 years and then cracked like a f*cking egg. It was horrible for everyone. That was in the middle 90's and I was only a slick ce. I can attest that as time goes on, it gets easier to put up with other people shit.

I also have C mod gunners and crew chiefs as brothers from different mothers and I know what a c-mod gunners life was. Multiple air medals and a lot of purple hearts. I just have to tell you welcome home and this seems to be a very good place to talk about life and other things.

Gunner