Has Anyone Here Experienced Ayahuasca?

[Philippa]

I have seen threads here talking about various illicit substances, like MDMA in a therapeutic context...but with all the talk about how much Ayahuasca has been helping so many people in the world for the last few years, including people living with PTSD, I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about it here...though I suppose I'm not surprised in a way, as I've noticed most people here seem to think that anything that is not validated by the psychological community, is somehow not worth investigating.

I understand that it is a contraversial subject, and many people would frown at the idea, and also there is the very real danger of choosing a phoney shaman, or someone only interested in your money, but there are also real ones, and reputable who have really helped people transform their lives forever.

I'm wondering what peoples thoughts are about this interesting medicine? Has anyone here researched it at least? Just curious...

 

[pamcoco]

Interesting subject!

I grew up in a hippie drug oriented California town as the first generation who's parents did drugs. At the time it was considered good parenting to be open minded and experiemental. As a result I used a good amount of hallucinogenics as a teenager. I experienced enormous growth and help from these experiences. Not that I didn't have bad trips, because I did. But these drugs removed the blocks to my emotions and allowed me to experience them intensely, the good the bad the ugly the hillarious. I am not fearful of my dark emotions and have always embraced them as learning experience. I always felt a weight lifted in the aftermath from using certain substances.

All this is to say, my friend mentioned this treatment, and I am a believer that it would be transformational for some people. I would like to give it a go. But, I also know from experience the flood of emotions in a drug induced state is overwhelming to many and can definitely be traumatic. The experience itself could worsen matters for some people no matter who is their guide. These drugs are not easy to come down from, so like a plane ride, there is no way out.

It seems like one of those treatments that is a very personal choice to be carefully considered. But it is a great topic you bring up and I would enjoy trying it. However I am on psychotropic meds and I think it can be deadly to mix them...... :-^

 

[Philippa]

Thanks for your reply pamcoco, and for sharing some of your background with psychadelics. I have a friend who grew up the same as you, with hippy parents who were always on acid and he grew up around trippers and people shooting up heroin (which his father is still on 40 years later). He's never really left the drug scene I think because of that influence. Nice guy though.

I've also had similar experiences with them in my late teens and early 20's, but I didn't abuse them like most people I knew back then. That period of my life was a very interesting and personally expanding growth stage, where I accelerated with the help of acid and E's and weed...but I knew what my limits were and stopped when I felt I'd had enough and learnt all I was going to learn from them...which I think is the point of taking them as well. I tried DMT recently and it was an incredible experience...very profound that one. Not something to do too often though, as tempting as it is. ;)

Very good point about the emotional influx that could be very distressing for many people who have been shut off from their feeling realms all their lives as a way to cope. That's definitely a real thing to consider. I'm curious to try aya at some point though...and I know people who have taken it many times and recommended good facilitators to work with here.

It's not something that you need to go to the jungle for these days...though the Amazon would definitely be a trip. :D I think I would love to try it there, just for the experience and the wonder of the place. Forests are extremely healing to just be in, so I can only imagine what it would be like with ayahuasca thrown into the mix.

Yes, I think there is a very strict diet and no psychotropic meds policy involved before you can even go there. Most reputable shamans will screen potential experimenters very rigorously beforehand.

Cannabis oil is another very interesting development that I've been researching lately. Very interesting story of how the old fellow Rick Simpson came to discover it treats all kinds of cancer, with many reported positive results from all over the place...and yet still the mainstream scientific community refuses to peer review it. I wonder why.:rolleyes:

 

[Philippa]

I have a Transpersonal background in art therapy, so that might explain where I stand on certain subjects like this. I don't have an issue with mainstream pharmaceuticals, IF they actually work for the individual, and I know they do work for many people and help immensely...but they aren't a cure.

 

[Ed Norton]

I would be very conservative about this.

 

[Philippa]

Can you explain what you mean by this please Ed?

By 'conservative' do you mean you would not consider it based on it's invalidation by mainstream scientists or have you done some research into this amazing medicine and voted no for personal reasons?

 

[Ed Norton]

Phillipa, I believe many now illicit substances could prove to be valuable additions to the pharmacopeia. Unfortunately, controlled double blind studies are usually not allowed to be performed by scientists. So, by conservative, in the absence of such studies I mean, quite simply to be very careful before embarking on personal experimentation.

 

[Philippa]

Thankyou for clarifying Ed Norton. I agree, it is something that needs to be approached with great care and lots of research, and certainly with the proper support system and context established.

 

[Philippa]

Do you know why these controlled double blind studies are not allowed Ed? They used to be when LSD was first discovered. Why did things change?

 

[Ed Norton]

Philippa, without trying to sound too conspiratorial, I believe it comes down to politics and money. The drug companies have huge lobbying power and will block any attempt to allow use of substances that can not be patented. Huge profits are made on patents. One can not patent Cannabis or MDMA. The main thing in the pharmaceutical industry are synthetic drug libraries produced by a method known as combinatorial synthesis. These proprietary and highly secretive libraries are what allows drug companies to produce so many compounds.

 

[Philippa]

I think the same way Ed...I just was wanting to see where you were going with the controlled double blind studies thing. ;) It's all about money. If they can't make any then they sure don't want people going elsewhere for their "fix", and like you say, not being able to patent it would be a major reason, as it was with L-tryptophan or 5htp.

I find it so interesting and frustrating at times, that so many supposedly scientifically minded skeptics poo pooh all this and continue to think that chemotherapy and pharma drugs are still the best options?

Anything that sounds like a dreaded 'conspiracy theory' is immediately written off without even considering how much sense it might make. They are so afraid of sounding crazy even contemplating it, and yet, all the evidence seems to connect to money being the bottom line here. Is it really that hard to imagine given the nature of humans, and the way capitalism breeds greed?

I'm not saying they don't work for some people, but they have to go through so much to get to a point of being 'in the clear' and even then there is no guarentee it won't come back, and in the meantime their senses and enjoyment of life is stunted to such a degree, all to extend their lives a few years. It doesn't make much sense to me at all...but yet, I get told I'm a 'sheeple' who isn't thinking for myself when I say this to them??

 

[franciemarnie]

I read a few books by Alberto Villoldos (sp) and his experiences with a shaman in Peru and taking the drug and becoming a shaman himself, and because of those books I had renewed hope in healing from PTSD.

I am personally too terrified of having a bad trip so unless that changes I won't try the drug. But I have been to two shaman and continue to read about related experiences and learn and develop from their journeys "to the other side" so to speak.