General Memory Loss Or Disassociation Or Just Denial?

[Sighs]

My combat PTSD partner seems to genuinely forget lashing out at me. (I mean verbally - I have made it very clear that physical abuse will mean the end of our relationship and he has never laid a hand on me in anger.)

Could he be disassociating? Or does he just forget? Or is he just unwilling to admit and take responsibility for being nasty?

He does have some memory and concentration problems due to his PTSD. So he does sometimes forget ordinary conversations as well. He uses lists to make sure he gets stuff done.

Any thoughts?

 

[scout86]

I seriously doubt that he "just forgets". As for the other 2 options, could be either one. Could be something else too, I suppose.

I'm interested in this.

I have made it very clear that physical abuse will mean the end of our relationship and he has never laid a hand on me in anger.)

So, if you made it clear that verbal abuse wasn't an option, do you think that would stop too? Do you think your prohibition is the reason he hasn't hit you? I'm just asking what you think, not making any kind of value judgement.

I had an incident with a friend a couple of months ago that was a real eye opener. We had met at a restaurant to eat and catch up. I was telling her about an episode where someone, in a group/meeting type situation really triggered me by "sneaking up on me" and touching me to get my attention. My friend said that that sounded just like herself. That she hates to be touched by strangers. I wasn't sure she got the point but thought, "maybe it IS the same". Then, joking around, she reached across the table and touched my arm. And I more or less exploded, didn't hit her but scared her half to death. In a rather shaken voice she said, "Oh, I guess it isn't the same at all. You couldn't help that, could you?" Well, no, as a matter of fact, in that situation I just reacted, there was no thought process at all. But I was looking right at her and should have known better..... We both learned something. Her, that it "isn't the same at all" and me that even a good friend who I thought "knew" about PTSD & me, actually DIDN'T get it. It's easy to make assumptions.

I'm just trying to make the point that how he reacts to stuff is really, truly different from how someone without the filter of PTSD does. It's not something he can just turn on and off. He can learn to manage it, but it is a very real thing. Have you talked to him about these events? How does that go? What does he say?

Is he getting any help, from outside your relationship, to deal with his PTSD? It sounds like maybe he could use some.

 

[Sighs]

His reactions are very much due to his PTSD. He spent 24 years as an infantry soldier with a total of 10 years in active war zones. The Army spent decades teaching him to react very quickly with extreme violence. The Army deliberately dampened his "flight" response and deliberately enhanced his "fight" response. (This is in no way a criticism of the Army - just a realistic assessment of what is necessary to produce good soldiers.) He has verbalised to me (when not having an episode) that he has to express frustration and anger somehow. He often says "but I'm not yelling AT YOU - I'm just venting about the situation". Which is usually true but I'm the only other person there so...

I don't think he can control the outbursts. I think he does manage it by not becoming physically violent. Although I don't like being yelled at I can live with it - particularly when I believe that it is as controlled as he can be. As in, he is doing his utmost. I can see him struggle with it sometimes. He will snap at me and then sort of take a breath and shake his head and go on in a normal tone of voice. That might happen many times in a few minutes. Sometimes he will get a handle on it and other times on the fifth or sixth or whatever time it becomes an outburst.

I have set the boundary on physical violence due to my needs, not his ability to comply. My understanding of boundaries is that you set them for YOU not for others - after all YOU are the only person you can control. So the boundary is not "you must not hit me otherwise I will leave" the boundary is "if he hits me I must leave". Does that make sense?

We do talk about his outbursts afterwards sometimes. Sometimes he is able to articulate what he was feeling at the time, but other times he doesn't seem to know what I'm talking about. He'll say "When was I grumpy? Today? When? What about?". If I tell him he kind of says "oh yeah, that" but I get the impression he is pretending to remember rather than actually remembering - hence my post.

He has been in and out of therapy for years. He does not take meds. He eats well, exercises, tries to have regular sleep patterns, spends a lot of time with horses and alone in the bush. He does not drink alcohol. I think this is as good as it gets.

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Random thoughts....

I am much the same. Well, somewhat the same. There are things I do and say....Well, mostly say....in an episode which I don't remember later. The thing is that I have an insane memory when I am not triggered. I remember the craziest, smallest, and most random things about situations that surprise people when I mention them in the future. I'm like an elephant! LOL. I can't help but think that our minds are purposely not forming new memories when we are in that fight/flight/freeze mode as a form of protection. The original trauma was so horrific that our minds don't want us to remember when we enter into another bad state. Of course, this is just me guessing, but this is what it seems like to me.

 

[Sighs]

Thanks for your input @Solara. I know my vet suffers from memory and concentration problems even when not in fight mode.

 

[Underdog]

I don't know if this helps any, but I had many moments of time loss and blackouts. My therapist said it was cognitive dissassociation because I was processing so much or experiencing/reliving the trauma and I had to be elsewhere. For me, not remembering was how I survived.

 

[scout86]

@Sighs, I wasn't questioning that his problems are due to PTSD, it makes sense that they are.

The thing about "boundaries" is, setting them is fine, and you're right, you can only control yourself, but they need to WORK too. I'm not sure how to put this....... Just because you set a boundary doesn't mean it's going to do any good. And it's the "working" part that really matters.

Sounds like he probably ISN'T aware how he sounds. Lots of "normal" people aren't always aware of that either. It's good that you guys talk about that.

I've had the same kind of memory lapses that @Solara mentioned. A lot of times, after an hour with my T, I leave and then realize I have no idea what we talked about. It bugs me, because even I think it must be "deliberate" somehow, but then how do you do something on purpose and not know that you're doing it? One day, out of nowhere, my T said, "I'll bet there are lots of times you don't remember what we talked about.", and then he kind of smiled. What a relief! I said that was true. He said not to worry about it. I have NO idea what's going on, at least not yet.

My best guess: If he's the kind of person who normally refuses to take responsibility for his actions, maybe that's what he's doing. If he's a stand up kind of guy (and you've given the impression he is) then he's probably telling you the truth when he says he doesn't remember.

BTW, I don't take any medication either. Not everyone needs it and it isn't the answer to ALL the world's problems anyway. If he were to decide to venture back in to therapy, this "not remembering" thing might be a worthwhile topic to work on a little.

 

[desiderata310]

OH MY GOD. @scout86 I have this same issue. I can go to therapy and come out having ZERO idea of what we talked about or very LITTLE idea of what happened. I've had to be reminded of conversations; of things I have told my therapist. I know it's dissociation and it's worse on some occasions. If I flashback at all the entire session is likely to be gone or at least what happened immediately proceeding and anything for the rest of that day (I am his last patient of the day both days of the week)

My memory can be swiss cheese sometimes. I have notes that I have taken from meetings that I can't decipher!
Generally, I tell EVERYONE, email me or send me a text to remind me about...

All that said to say, yea, I think that it's a PTSD symptom. I was NEVER this bad before. It actually causes me a great deal of anxiety.
My therapists said it was all because of dissociation. I am trying to learn how to ground better.

 

[blackswan]

@Solara - my partner is EXACTLY the same. I'm always so jealous of his memory! We've often wondered if his skills are a by product of PTSD, a by product of minor head trauma as a child (apparently it's a thing that can happen), or just him...

And @Sighs - my partner also says horrible things to me when he's triggered that he has limited recollection of later. It seems to be a kind of disassociation as it seems he's actually talking to his abusers at these times, but it could be adrenaline getting in the way of memory formation as the more worked up he is the less he remembers. We're getting better at managing these situations though, and they're decreasing in frequency as his recovery progresses.

 

[nursenurse]

I was a verbal punching bag for years in a non PTSD relationship. For what it is worth, I got tired after 21 years of it, and did not get away as unscathed as I thought I would. Sticks and stones and all that rot is emotionally draining, no matter what you attribute the cause to. For all of you in verbally tumultuous relationships, with or without PTSD, the damage can be just as great as with physical violence. I think it needs to be addressed through therapy, even if it is just for the supporter themselves. I understand that these sufferers are not necessarily bad people, but without some help at least for yourself, you may end up feeling crushed with time. No matter how well you steel yourselves, it can take its toll. Bolster yourselves well, and hopefully your sufferers will want to try. That is what makes all the difference.

 

[Sweetpea76]

I'm just curious because he is a combat vet... does he have a TBI as well that could be exacerbating the memory and forgetting issues?

 

[Sighs]

Hi @Sweetpea76.

Not a diagnosed TBI but he has several battlescars on his face and I know of an incident where he hit his head so hard that he says he felt "out of it" and struggled to concentrate for MONTHS afterwards. So it really wouldn't surprise me if he had a TBI as well.