Family Members In Denial

[shimmerz]

Abusers = Abusers. They're not in denial. They're deny-ing.

And projecting.

 

[RavenGirl]

Right! I finally called my brother an abuser in June. I wrote on Facebook, "once an abuser always an abuser! "
His reply was, "oh how did you ever survive? " Narcissistic people will never admit to what they did. I cut him out of my life that day and have never looked back.

 

[Anarchy]

One of the vids I posted about narcs in the other symptoms and disorders forum, describes narcs in therapy.

I had difficulty believing that they can ever have sufficient insight to realise that they need it, but seemingly some run into enough trouble to get there themselves, or to be forced there under threat from a court, a probation officer, or a partner or employer threatening to fire them if they don't.

It makes interesting listening. Though if you were a T, you'd want paying double to sit in the same room as one, and listen to its venom.

Seemingly if they can be forced to stay in therapy, they can respond, but the guy in the vid said that they are much more work to treat than borderlines.

 

[sun seeker]

One of the vids I posted about narcs in the other symptoms and disorders forum, describes narcs in therapy.

Oooh, I want to see that. My mother has spent years in therapy but I think all she does is intellectualize her feelings...? It confuses me. I'd really like more insight into this. Do you remember the name of the thread?

 

[The Albatross]

The only way through dysfunction is to be away and apart from it. Sometimes the mountain comes to Mohamed... sometimes Mohamed comes to the mountain. The only way to change they familial dysfunction is to stick around and attempt the dialogue... I do that (so far).

 

[sun seeker]

Do you remember the name of the thread?

Never mind, I found it. :-) Thanks for posting @Anarchy, that provided some food for thought. That therapist has the patience of a saint.

While watching it I found this article, which makes some points that help me understand the narcissists in my life. Maybe it will be helpful to others who are banging their heads against a wall wondering why their narcissistic relatives are the way they are.

Link Removed

 

[Dana1010]

Lots of good points raised, everyone. I guess the part of my OP that is still nagging at me is this:

...why it took separation for them to acknowledge your existence?

I'm still really dumbfounded by what it was about separation that roused her and agitated her to want contact suddenly. You'd think I turned into a different person. I saw it with my other siblings too--like as soon as they'd become independent, she'd start stalking them, guilt tripping them, playing "your poor old mother," etc. And literally just weeks or months before when they were still at home, she was oblivious to them to the point of neglecting their basic needs and looking on at mistreatment from our father like it was a joke. Why did she develop so much interest in these people she obviously didn't care about just at the point when you'd have thought she'd be happy to be rid of them?

 

[sun seeker]

@Dana1010, I think what I am about to post is relevant to this topic, but I don't want to hijack your thread so let me know if you'd rather I start my own okay?

I am the child of at least one narcissist, probably two though for some reason I am less focused on my dad at this point. It's taken until very recently to even realize this was the case (why did this never come up in years and years of therapy as I talked about how crazy I felt because of the split between the outer image of my family and the reality I knew??) It helps so much to understand the workings of the narcissistic mind and be able to say "oh... that's why that person always responded to me that way... it really wasn't about me!" Such a relief.

There is one behaviour of my mother's that has driven me to the brink time and time again, and I am just now thinking that maybe it's a typical narcissistic trait. If confronted with someone else's feelings or needs that she just doesn't want to face, she simply walks away. It took me a while to get this through to a therapist who kept saying "so she doesn't address issues." No, I literally mean she turns her back and walks away without saying a word. It can be devastating, especially so for a young person depending on her for care. It's an insidious kind of neglect that plays with the mind because it is both invalidating to one's sense of self worth and invisible to the outside world.

Would this be because what she is being confronted with is anathema to her sense of grandiosity and having everything under control? If she ignores it, it just doesn't exist? Does anyone have experience with this kind of treatment?

 

[sun seeker]

I'm still really dumbfounded by what it was about separation that roused her and agitated her to want contact suddenly.

Me, oh, pick me!

Because if she is a narcissist, she needs people to feed her ego. If you withdrew, she had to do something to draw you back. She *needs* people around that she can mistreat. A narc doesn't mistreat people because they don't like them and don't want them around... they aren't capable of liking people in the first place. They mistreat people because that is how they are wired.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. It's horrible. :(

 

[scout86]

Why did she develop so much interest in these people she obviously didn't care about just at the point when you'd have thought she'd be happy to be rid of them?

I've seen this too, and might have it figured out. (But might not be able to explain it!)

The thing is, she doesn't want people around because she LIKES them as people. She wants them around because of what they do for her. I don't necessarily mean "do for her" like wash the dishes. The people in her life serve some kind of purpose. They make her feels some kind of way she wants to feel. Does that make any sense? (Weirdly, maybe.....?) It's got nothing to do with anything remotely resembling "love". It might have a bit to do with control, but if one person moves out of her sphere of influence she will probably find a replacement.

 

[scout86]

@sun seeker I see didn't see your post until after I'd posted. Same idea, I think!

 

[Dana1010]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. It's horrible. :(

It's mostly in the past. I'm officially estranged. There was just one little thing recently, something got over the wall. It was very disturbing and insulting to see she's still talking "love, love, love, love," as I'm struggling to put my life together.