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Cure For PTSD - Does it Exist?

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waif123

New Here
I have split this thread from an introduction thread, as this now is a different topic: [DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread6636.html[/DLMURL]

Anthony,

I am disappointed that someone who runs this forum, is offering advice that they will have to live with this for the rest of your life. I am involved in a high profile committee that has a scientific advisory group as well as a group of those who have suffered, and we are working hard to stop the lie that PTSD is not curable.

you will always have bad memories of the trauma, same as a person who experienced te trauma but did not get PTSD, you will still have days where you feel depressed, as do most people who do not suffer from PTSD, you may feel overwhelmed by what is going on in your life, same as people without PTSD.

Forums like this well very supportive, often bring together the people who do not have the resources to fight it. And instead must live with the symptoms. And believe me I know I am voicing an unpopular opinion here.

I have chronic PTSD, which often is said by those misguided that it is treatable not curable, another myth.

the problem facing us today, is that even psychiatrists are still mis-informed about PTSD that is why my psychiatrist travels the world presenting case fact to the contradictory.

There are very simple books to read, PTSD for Dummies, as an example that point out that this is curable.

anthony please do not take away hope and the truth from the people who are knew to this illness and do not take away hope.
 
waif123 said:
their is scientific proof that PTSD is curable, the process is said to be very demanding, very hard, but if you make the commitment and have the determination, you will see an end to this awful illness.

Waif, would you mind explaining what the scientific proof is, and what the process is to reach that cure? What study you are referring to? I would be very interested to read it. I try to keep up on these studies. Does the cure you mention also encompass those who have some brain changes as a result of their PTSD? My daughter's brain has been altered and the results show up on an MRI. I believe I did read somewhere that some of the brain changes could be reversed, however I had thought that was still in the theory stage, rather than proven.
 
Hi Waif, at present scientific factually proven studies only have shown that PTSD is incurable, but treatable, which means it can be managed. If you have such information I would be more than willing to review it and take back my statements, however; I review PTSD studies regularly and nothing has come to my forefront as yet with a known cure for PTSD.

Please feel free to share what scientific, proven studies you are referring thanks so we can all review them. As Kathy stated, there are some methods being reviewed, though not one has conclusively proven to provide a cure to PTSD itself. None have factually, scientifically proven to reverse what PTSD is, being the chemical imbalance within the brain. Anyone can heal trauma, anyone can learn how to manage their lifestyle, but that is not a cure, that is simply the only proven, scientifically found method currently established in which a sufferer of PTSD can assimilate into society to live a fairly normal life, however; saying that, normal daily stressors will likely be too much for the sufferer thus creating severe anxiety and panic attacks, thus symptoms, thus back to square one. Some can get around this with medication, some cannot. Many the medication outweighs the benefits, some not.

Please feel free to share proven scientific facts as you state. I would love to have a cure to this, nothing more would make me happy, but you must be privy to something the rest of the world is not presently!
 
This is a long post Here is what I have found in my research into PTSD, I will admit right from the start that I know I have a controversial opinion that PTSD is curable. Because this site doesn't allow links to other sites, and some of my documents have been printed out, or are in texts, I will just be referencing what is relative to this discussion, as I don't want to have to type 20 pages. To begin with I will quote Dr. Mark Goulston, writer of Post traumatic stress for dummies, I have included this for people who may not be aware of the possibilities of brain damage from PTSD:

“When researchers look at the brains of people with PTSD, they see some interesting differences. However, there's a big chicken-and-egg problem: Do these differences increase your risk for PTSD, or do they result from PTSD? It's a question experts can't answer for sure yet, although they have some clues. One of the most consistent findings in people with PTSD is that many of them have smaller-than-average hippocampus. The hippocampus is a little seahorse-shaped part of the brain. There's one on the left sideof your brain and one on the right. This little brain region is a hard worker whose main job is to help you store new memories. Unfortanetly it is highly susceptible to stress. But her's the question: Does the stress of trauma and its aftermath cause the hippocampus to shrink in people with PTSD or is it the other way around? That is, are people with small hippocampi (that's plural) more prone to develop PTSD after a trauma? Or – another possibility - could a mix of both scenerios occur? Here are some studies that come down on different sides of the issue:

A few years ago, a twin study looked at two groups of men. The first group included Vietnam vets who developed PTSD and thier non-vet twins who did not have PTSD In the second group were vets who didn't develop PTSD and their non-vet twins (who also didn't have PTSD)

The study found that the military vets with PTSD had smaller hippocampi than the vets without PTSD (no surpirse there). But her's the kicker: their non-combat twins also had smaller hippocampi than either the non=PTSD military vets or thier twins. So this study clearly pointed to a mall hippocampus as a risk factor for PTSD.

On the flip side, many studies show the chronic elevation of cortisol, a stress-related hormone, can damage brain cells leading to smaller hippocampus. These studies point the finger at the trauma itself and the resulting stress as the causes of hippocampal shrinkage” Here is a look at a new study Quoted from J. Douglas Bremner, M.D “How Psychological Trauma Affects the Hippocampus and Memory":

Childhood abuse and other sources of extreme stress can have lasting effects on the parts of the brain that are involved in memory and emotion. The hippocampus, in particular, seems to be very sensitive to stress.8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16 Damage to the hippocampus from stress can not only cause problems in dealing with memories and other effects of past stressful experiences, it can also impair new learning.17,18 Exciting recent research has shown that the hippocampus has the capacity to regenerate nerve cells ("neurons") as part of its normal functioning, and that stress impairs that functioning by stopping or slowing down neuron regeneration.19,20””

Although related to depression more studies "How does your brain work in depression?" Two of the structures in your brain that are important not only in depression but also in stress and trauma are the hippocampus and the amygdala. These structures are located in the limbic system, or the primitive, reptilian part of the brain: the part of the brain responsible for “fight or flight,” the part of the brain responsible for our basic survival instincts. In depressed people whose depression was left untreated by antidepressants or therapy, the hippocampus was physically reduced by 10%. This reduction affects memory, because there are fewer cells to process memory. This finding was reported in the American Journal of Psychiatry. In individuals who received antidepressant medication, no such shrinkage was found.” According to Wikipedia, London cab drivers from having to know all the routes have an increased hippocampus Early research is showing that it is possible to re-grow the hippocampus “stress causes high levels of cortisol, the "fight or flight" hormone. It used to be thought that new brain cells are not created after physical maturity, but now it's known that new brain cells grow on a brain structure called the hippocampus, and that cortisol diminishes growth of new brain cells on the hippocampus, and apparently serotonin facilitates regrowth of brain cells on the hippocampus.”

The use of SSRI anti depressants and excersise increase seretonin levels helping the hippocampus here is an excerpt from Ron Sterling, M.D., on the subject “After you read this column you will be able to impress your friends with at least three big words. Those words are corticotropin releasing factor (CRF), brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), and the hippocampus. You probably already know that the latest antidepressants increase certain already existing chemicals in our brains such as serotonin. You might also know that antidepressants can take a long time to work. There is a reason for why it takes a while for them to work and it has to do with the regrowth of nerve cells, not just an increase in certain chemicals in the brain. CRF is the main culprit in depression. Stress dramatically increases CRF levels in the human brain. CRF is toxic to nerve cells in the hippocampus.

"So, Dr. Ron, what is the hippocampus?" Think of the hippocampus as a horseshoe-shaped brain structure that sits inside the brain. It's two ends point forward and it crosses from one side to the other toward the back of the head. It contains most of the norepinephrine and serotonin found in the brain. It is essentially our mood control centre. By using special MRI imaging techniques, many studies have found a link between a smaller hippocampus and moderate to severe depression. What makes a hippocampus smaller? Right, high CRF levels shrink the hippocampus. You might wonder how people who are always stressed avoid having their hippocampus damaged and ending up depressed. That is where BDNF comes in. BDNF is made by nerve cells and it stimulates them to grow and make more connections to other nerve cells. The hippocampus normally has large amounts of BDNF. However, under stress, BDNF in the hippocampus of rats can be dramatically depleted. So, the cycle goes like this: Stress increases CRF; high CRF levels damage the hippocampus; stress decreases BDNF; nerve cells lose the ability to produce certain chemicals; depression follows. Is there anything that can help? In rats, either Prozac-type antidepressants or exercise alone increase BDNF levels and protect against the bad effects of CRF.

"So, Dr. Ron, what does rat research have to do with humans?" I forgot to tell you one other thing about the hippocampus. It is one of the "oldest" parts of the brain. Unlike the cerebral cortex, that huge, new, added-on part of the human brain that makes us the thinking animals that we are, the hippocampus exists in almost all mammals, in a similar form and having a similar function as it does in humans. No tool yet exists to measure BDNF in the human hippocampus. However, given what we know about human CRF levels and stress, the relationship between a smaller hippocampus and depression, and how antidepressants actually help the hippocampus regrow, it all fits -- CRF bad, BDNF good! Exercise good!”

This is from an article quoting many resources “Is there hope? Yes. "Brain cell growth. For decades it has been considered a fundamental truth that adult brains never grow new cells. But one of the most exciting recent discoveries in memory research is that neurons do multiply." "EMDR therapy combines a somatic therapeutic approach with eye movements or other forms of rhythmical stimulation, such as hand taps or sounds that stimulate and integrate the left and right hemispheres of the brain." “ Another article, with many resources “A first bilateral MRI-based measurement of hippocampal volume was obtained at baseline, when the patient met the CAPS criteria for a PTSD diagnosis and the total score on the DTS was 51. The baseline hippocampus volumes were 2,838.91 mm3 for the left hippocampus and 3,259.00 mm3 for the right hippocampus. After 8 weeks of EMDR treatment (one 90 minute session/week), the patient no longer met the CAPS criteria for PTSD and the DTS total score had decreased from 51 to 8. The second MRI showed that the left and right hippocampus volumes were 3,196.24 and 3,599.40 mm3 respectively. Therefore, the increase in hippocampus volume was 357.33 mm3 (left) and 340.40 mm3 (right) respectively. “ Okay there are some studies, I may believe in them more strongly than others, but from these articles and others I see that an increase in Seritone levels, excercise, reduced stress that comes with coping skills learnt with PTSD that the brain can regrow.
 
Simply for everyone's information, Waif will be re-posting her article shortly, there was simply a difficulty with formatting which she needed to resolve.
 
I've read through Waif123's reply, and I have done some quick searching on the net based on what she has quoted.

I have to say, I don't think she is privy to some mysterious inner sanctum of knowledge, I think she is simply choosing appropriate areas of research and is focusing on emerging information which was not available during the time when many of the initial (and unfortunately most recognized and quoted) PTSD studies were done.

I have read on these boards so many times, even most doctors don't know anything about PTSD. Much of the time, Doctors working with limited information are wrong. I would posit that the same theory can be applied to many of these studies. Simply perpetuating the idea that PTSD is an incurable disease is in reality only enforcing the stigma that many sufferers are trying so hard to overcome.

Every age, every generation has it's built in assumptions.....science is no different: that the world is flat, that the world is round, etc. There are hundreds of hidden assumptions; things we take for granted that may or may not be true. Of course, in the vast majority of cases, history has proven with each new discovery that the things we take for granted now aren't true. So presumably, if history is any guide much of what we take for granted about the world today, or about an illness such as PTSD simply isn't true. But we're locked into these precepts without enough knowing it often times. That's a paradigm.

The brain can rebuild. Altering thought patterns can alter neural pathways. The brain can regrow itself under the right circumstances. Add to this the physical effects that are just now being studied and examined of practices such as mindfulness, and meditation and a pattern and of mind and body healing begins to emerge. From what I've read of Waif123's post, I believe that she does in fact have reasonable evidence to support the claim that the physical effects can heal, and with the proper support, care and practice, the mental effects can be overcome as well.

What's more though, I find her outlook to be a much more healthy one. If you believe that you can be cured, then it's possible that you can be. If you refuse to believe that you can be cured, then no matter what happens, you never will be. You can only accomplish what you believe can be accomplished. Determination and the will to endure accumulate, and grow with time and can have a positive effect, stimulating both mental and physical effects of well being.

In any given battle, the victory always goes to the one who is determined to win.
 
I did undelete the second attempt as I think that is acceptable.

I have read pretty much everything that was already contained in your article before, and again from that, nowhere does it clearly state a "cure" exists for PTSD at present. Your referencing tests which are in trial, however; phsyicians and scientists have been down this road over and over, yet to come through with an actual cure. Yes, I agree with you waif that these studies are certainly good news, and the moment I watched last year the news scientists had discovered ways to grow certain aspects of the brain again, regenerative growth in cells and so forth for many diseases and illnesses, I went hunting.

The fact though at this time, is that PTSD is not curable. Yes, there is research being conducted to possibly find a way to help the majority of sufferers, yet even then I have read that some people may not even be reversible through regrowth of the hippocampi. The study surrounding the vets, where the reduction was found in not only sufferers and veterans, but just normal people I also agree. But what you miss here is that you focused on only that aspect. That aspect says hope, however; you completely overlooked why some with PTSD don't have the reduction, some do, both come out with different determinations, etc etc. There are two sides of every fence, and I think your only focusing on one, or you are atleast showing bias to only one side. That is not realistic.

It is like the whole debate about organic lifestyle vs. economic lifestyle. Some become hippies and go to the extremes. Some become obese and gorge themselves. Some sit on the fence and take the best of both sides. That is what I encourage people to do here, not to make judgement, instead to look at both sides, to look at facts, to look at the realistic nature of events.
  • The realistic nature is that scientists have discovered they can regrow dead cells.
  • The realistic nature is that from this it "could" be possible then that a cure for many mental health conditions is found.
  • The facts as they stand right now though, is no cure exists for PTSD.
  • The facts as they stand right now, PTS is completely curable.
This is both sides of the fence. The future and the present. I will never say a cure will not exist, but I teach people to work with facts and realism because that thinking model period is what helps them achieve now, not later and this type of science may never be available to some as they could be dead. It could take only a few years for a cure to be available. It could take 30 years for a cure to be available. This is what I want people to know, not a myth of present fact, being that a cure exists, because it doesn't right at this point. They are experimenting, they are hypothesising, they are theorising, however; not a factual cure exists and that is what people with this debilitating disorder must use in order to heal and manage now, not build themselves up with a possibility to be let down later. If that type of thinking is encouraged during the healing and learning to manage phases, then I think you can understand the outcome to their health is quite different to what it can be now.

This is why we have the world PTSD news forum, so members can post where research is developing and piece together the puzzles with hope, though atleast acknowledge that presently it just isn't so.
 
Oh Yes Waif, as veiled said also. Thank you veiled for covering that. We must learn, and through this we must educate not only ourselves but others. Though what the facts are saying and what you are saying, are not quite the same though IMHO.... I think we need to stick with the facts, being a cure may be in sight within the future, though presently one does not exist. I do love reading though, and certainly do plenty off it myself... I do hope a cure is found, that much I do strive for hope.
 
Thank you all
I now live in hope that one day there will be a cure. I hope these theories become a reality and fast. I'm going to do a lot more exercise. i dont do any apart from at work where i just walk around although i do walk a long distance there. Think im going to join a self defense class and go to the gym.

Again thank you
 
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