Dealing with anger

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Oh, sorry......we aren't talking about abuse. We are talking about criticism no matter how vicious, heartless, or cruel. I guess I forgot the distinction...


We're dealing with anger in this thread, not criticism... that was another one. Personally... I think you have raised some really good points which would be awesome discussions in their own right.
If #5 is true, then why do adults in verbally, emotionally, and physically abusive relationships sometimes end up with ptsd, a very real brain disorder? Or concentration camp victims?
Somewhat different than talking about anger, though yes, the principles are still the same, and again, you should not confuse what I say next with blame or fault, because another can be at fault for something we deem socially unacceptable, but again, you come back to the philosophical argument of fairness based on who's perception.

Technically, those who develop PTSD actually do so themselves via how we interpret what goes on around us. You could say, we gave ourselves PTSD, which is true and factual, however; that is also a simplistic view, as that doesn't allow for the external factors that encompass what we deem socially unacceptable, have been raised upon and such values and belief systems are built upon based on society standards and views. Again, a philosophical argument that has no actual right answer, other than our brain created our PTSD based on our interpretation of events we have experienced.

You have to introduce fault, blame and other such concepts based on societies complex models we've agreed to accept and live within, which is in essence what we base our interpretations of events upon, which our brain then forms PTSD upon. (simplistic view)

This is proven in high violence countries, such as Africa, where PTSD is cited to be extremely high, yet society is so used to the violence and to them that is normal, they don't have PTSD and function accordingly based on their societies moral codes, which are death, destruction, chaos, rape, violence, so forth. Whilst not all live like this, they're still accustomed to this lifestyle as being normal. It's similar to say that Americans are used to guns being part of your cultural belief system, yet United Kingdom and Australia are quite the opposite, and have a non-gun belief system.

This is why I tend to ask that these type of discussions don't get off on a tangent, because tangents have to introduce far more complex models that accepting the basics, which is all I'm trying to highlight here. I've highlighted this same thing in the past, and the forum grows and experts have better ways to say things, more research is done, and things evolve slightly... but these are the basics without the complex external models.

Get the basics down pat, part of your daily life and thinking, then introduce the complex models and philosophical challenges uniquely... again, they are unique and quite individual based on other complex models.

The idea of these more basic discussions is to lead into the complex discussions... so maybe a good question you want to post as your own discussion to debate the philosophical values and views of people and how they determine PTSD forming and assign ownership of it. Would be interesting in and of itself IMHO.


For those lives who are ruled by anger, who find themselves anger prone, then this does apply to you.

So what if you have someone who is VERY much a candidate for the poster child for this post, but is in complete denial about it, and it's impact?


Denial is another problem, and one that nobody can change other than the person in denial. Yes, you can assist them along by using rational responses to counter their irrational justifications, which they will be using to deny they have an anger issue. Denial itself is an irrational thinking style, a distortion if you like, which can be countered with rational counter-statements.

All cognitive distortions come down to assessment. Normally a person self-assesses, but when one is in denial then they need someone around them to do it. Create a table, date, what is happening, anger outburst, outcome, and record their behaviour and then present them the list after a couple of weeks and you have a few pages to show them exactly how they react to specific events. If they don't want to even read it, there is nothing you can do other than look after you, as a person must come to terms with their issues in their way, their time... nobody can force another to do this.


Policy Enforcement
Anthony thank you so much for this topic you brought up. I agree with you. We make the choice and no one is twisting our arms. I took an anger management class which I graduated and I learned so much. I think you are right on the mark. We do all have free will and I now play with the cards that I am dealt in life.

I do not want to be a victim and live like a victim anymore. Great information to read again and again. Thank you so much. I think it is true that we all have free will to live the way we want. But being inraged and out of control of oneself is a very dangerous habit.

We actually make the choice no matter what is happening.

I think that there is an anger that goes along with the stages of grieving and it happens once we come out of denial. It is just a stage that we go through in our grieving process. Listneing to the words while ignoring the actions can lead to serious distortions of reality.


It is very helpful, anyway I have read something about these things in the past and also recently. Anyone who struggle with anger or anyone in general should learn this. Or put it in less commanding manner, people should just think about it more. Me too. I have to write that I have read article called The Japanese skill copied by the world and you remind me this article with this thread. You or anyone else can find him in BBC Travel. I'm not allowed yet to post a link because I'm new member.
Well basically it is about, quote "mindfulness is “not really about sitting in the full lotus… pretending you’re a statue in the British Museum. Simply put, mindfulness is moment-to-moment awareness".
Or another quote "Leah Weiss, a senior teacher at Stanford University’s Compassion Cultivation Program, is one of a growing number of experts who advocate ‘mindfulness in action’. This is something to be practiced throughout the day, rather than just for 10 minutes’ meditation. Weiss described it as “becoming mindfully aware of your thoughts, feelings, and surroundings even while you’re engaged in some other activity."

So this is very helpful, or could be very helpful for people like us. I try to learn this, I have even some experience from past with this so I already know that this could help me and therefore I can probably practice it. But I have to refer to some scientific point of view. First of all we are not born as a tabula rasa. We born with some predispositions. And another thing is that severe trauma which many of us have experienced, changes our brain's function. And even there are some differences. There is a bit different between someone who has ptsd and someone who has c-ptsd. I realize, and my therapist confirmed it, that for example "emdr" MAY not help so fast people who struggle with c-ptsd. Childhood trauma goes deeper into your personality. It changes the fundamentals of personality. Which can be learned, and afterwards unlearned, and that's the hardest part. But chronic stress or childhood trauma definitely changes the brain and it is a bit different when you experience some trauma but with healthy fundamentals of your personality and when you grow up in traumatic environment. It changes the brain, I mean limbic system, it includes the hypothalamus, the hippocampus, the amygdala and so on. And I also mean prefrontal cortex and communication between them. Your brain literally adapts to this sick environment in which you grow up. I can quote again, this time it is about veterans, but it fit also in here "This is behavioral conditioning that helped the veteran remain alive. When differentiating between a combat zone and civilian life — the brain knows the difference, but still functions on instinct, in the ways that have been proven effective in order to stay alive". You can exchange veteran for the child. And as we all know we are creatures of habit. And habits are almost-automatic.

And besides that I also agree with what Chosen wrote about anger. There is definitely something about it.

So yes, I do agree with you, with this advice and so on, but I just think that we should not simplify this problem. Otherwise I agree. And what I think could be also helpful, is that when we sometimes fail in our let's name it treatment process we sould not punish ourselves, we should also learn how to forgive ourselves. You know even when you fail. It is not bad to look at this problem differently. I mean you can look at it in a way that ptsd, or c-ptsd is something you can change, it's up to you, but it is also something that was putted into you without your permission, like some foreign element. I know it sounds odd, weird, I can not compare ptsd, or c-ptsd, or childhood trauma to some virus or what :D :D but nevertheless I think there are some similarities. Because our brain has two parts and it is very adaptable tool. One part is instinctive and another is rational. What happened to your brain is that that instinctive part was overexposed by events that were too much for your brain under some specific circumstances (long term or short term) in conjunction with memory and with your specific predispositions. And now your rational part must somehow deal with it, but that instinctive part is much older and stronger and it has to be because this part keeps us alive. So rational and also newer part must beat instinctive but same time older and stronger part which is influenced not just by experiences but also by genes as well. And as if it were not enough it's maybe not quite the best idea and same time it is probably not entirely possible to shut that completely down. As Chosen wrote "Anger is a vital human emotion. It has constructive and destructive abilities."


It seems like it would be possible to go too far down this road and get to the point where "everything is ok". I'm not sure I want to live in that world.
No, you most likely don't. Because I did. I have just recently gotten to the point where I feel I can safely express anger. Prior to that point I was like a leaf blowing in the wind.... ducking and dodging the anger and frustration of others' which, many times, translated into aggressive and or violent behaviours.

There's a huge difference between righteous anger that motivates and compels people to make a positive change for themselves or others and the anger that rises due to road rage or stubbing your toe.
Yes, the motivating and compelling type of anger is what I am learning to understand to call, reflect upon, and allow myself to feel. Not anger that I just use as a release for my own frustration. Also, recognizing that others are expressing anger towards me. For whatever trauma-esq type reason, I needed to convert the thought of other's anger into .... idk, something else.

It might be a pretty useful response too, if I object to being attacked.
Absolutely agree. This is necessary, imo, for survival. I like the word objectionable as well. It is a good way of re-framing what could be considered as rage-aholic type behaviour versus anger that helps us get out of an 'objectionable' situation. (Have I mentioned how much I love that word Scout?)

I was taught to think of anger as a force, like the wind, to let it blow through me, without damaging myself or another, to discover the emotions and needs below my anger.
I really like the idea of visualizing my anger over certain situations as the wind and blowing through me. It is brilliant. It allows me to recognize that if I come across a situation that brings up anger, that I do not have to let those feelings fester inside of me. I don't know that I was actually ever shown what to do with anger when I was younger, so I just 'smiled for the camera', you know?

Anyway, thank you all! This is a great way of re-framing something that I hadn't quite gotten into words yet.
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