News Doctor-Assisted Death For Those Living With Ptsd

[scout86]

I have not read any government in 2019 suggesting the homeless should be given the option to euthanize themselves with government paid help to do so.

Personally, I suspect that's the conservative version of the "war on poverty", they just don't have enough guts to say it out loud.

 

[Ronin]

That’s so incredibly dangerous. So incredibly dangerous and dark.

Yep.

& I find it the opposite of freedom & hopeful perspective to be thinking of homeless>> just good for the needle.

Not like a shining ray in the distance, just fuelling despair thinking instead of solution seeking.

Not even starting on how that is born out of classist thinking around homelessness as somehow end stop... where for many it is a temporary situation, or temporary solution to issues, or relief at least to get energy to sort them, from the scratch.

 

[shimmerz]

(possibly you meant Justmehere ?).

Oh boy, I sure did Junebug. My apologies for the mix up!

I seriously fear the day government decides to support ending the lives of the homeless for being without homes.

That's what I am trying to say Justmehere. I have lived it. There is no debating it. The government is supporting ending the lives of the homeless. Here where I live, if one has no address or a post office address we are cut off of government funded health care. No psychiatric drugs, no hospital stays (and there are no hospitals here for those who don't have our government insurance), do visits to the doctors. Nothing. Nadda. Zilch.

No warm states to live in. Just cold frigidly cold provinces. People are dying in steel boxes that collect used clothing here because they are trying to get out of the cold. Or they freeze. Or they starve. Or they are killed by cop because they don't have meds to manage the terror that each of us would be in if we were in similar completely helpless situations.

I am the last one that wants these people to die. I was one of them for long enough that I have the terror of it; the dismissive way I was treated; the feeling that I was literally left for dead by friends/family/society is something I am currently working on with my T.

People are being fed the never endless rhetoric of 'homeless people are mentally ill and WANT to be on the streets'. Bull.f*cking.shit they do. Nobody I met (and I met a lot of homeless) wanted to be on the street. Not one of them.

Honestly, people in jail get 4 walls and a roof; meals; medical care; even a university education and a job! Homelessness here IS a death sentence. A slow; soul crushing death sentence. There isn't hope in homelessness here (or I suspect many other places). If we as a society are okay with these people literally dying in the streets in a torturous situation; which they are - there is no debating that; then we - the people of that society need to decide. Do we throw them a life line that actually allows them to live humanely? If not, we need to allow them (if they want it) to be put out of their misery.

A responsible society makes it a point to understand the condition of those in society who are vulnerable. This video captures a small portion of what it is to be chronically homeless. Watch it if you dare.

Okay, that's it for me for this thread. Thanks for listening.

 

[Justmehere]

I don’t believe anyone on this thread is denying the pain and life very dangerous conditions for those without homes. I don’t want government paid doctors to euthanize me, put me down, if I end up homeless again... which is the option you’ve been supporting. I think there are other ways to save the lives of the homeless other than killing them.

 

[shimmerz]

No I’m not advocating for the death. What I’m saying is that if we don’t advocate for them while they’re alive they might as well be dead given the way they are forced to live. And that we should respect that if that’s their feelings until people actually give a shit about them.

It’s not good enough for us to say what people should put up with and what they shouldn’t but if we do have an opinion then it needs to be rooted in reality. The reality of these peoples life situation is that it is in fact hopeless as there is no power in homelessness. By design

People need to stop crowing about what people should and shouldn’t live with and start fighting for the right thing. Our human-ness needs to be rethought. How are we actually being humane when we fight for the right for these people to die on the streets without them having a choice? Have you ever lived on a cold Canadian street during the course of consecutive winters Fadeaway?

I am actually advocating for people to have a choice to earn their own suffering that is forced upon them by society who thinks they know better how it is to live homelessly.

Maybe we could all do again and start advocating for those people who are dying on our streets rather than challenging them to suck it up buttercup.

I expect you have no idea what these people live through. If you don’t like the idea of them being released through it by their own choice, then fight for them and their rights. Because they have none and they need your help.

OK I don’t care what comes next I’m not answering again. Twist my words whatever way you want I’m no longer interested.

 

[Neverthesame]

I'm not sure I understand.
No one can stop anyone from ending their own lives if they choose. Is death any less terrifying whether your sitting in a chair in a doctor's office looking at a needle in your arm, seeing the ground rushing up at you, staring at the muzzle of a gun, dangling above a tipped over chair, driving 90mph towards a brick wall, or staring at a needle in a dirty bathroom?

It's not like there aren't complications and foul ups from lethal injection. Someone else doing it doesn't mean it can't go horribly wrong.
Why does the window dressing matter? Serious question.

 

[Chris-duck]

Why does the window dressing matter? Serious question.

I think cos it's not a big leap from "I understand why you'd want to die so I'm going to allow it to be legal" and "you should probs die tbh". In terminal illness there's no real difference because the death is happening regardless and I'm pro euthanasia in a lot of situations. But MH and social circumstances are hard to judge like that. Where's the line where it's "terminal" and who should be allowed to judge that when the patients view may be altered by mental illness.

 

[Ronin]

expect you have no idea what these people live through.

I think it was said earlier in the thread somewhen in... November?, that disagreeing is not because nobody knows what they talk about. The contrary, many lived through that *and worse* conditions.

By the way, while Canada is the worst of the worst... Do you mind trying on winter Russia? I think we could share hilarious stories.

a.k.a. How does the Try The Bad Conditions Olympics actually do anything for anyone, either?
Think people advocate for helping and life of everyone *because* we have been there, one way or the other. Not because everybody lacks the experience to connect to.

Because we value those lives very much.

and start fighting for the right thing.

I can't see how arguing for arbitrarily decided murder by govt officials is the right thing.

While at it, we are not at hypotheticals. Only the countries doing whatever they please with street and other undesirables do not have such stark publicity.

Because lack of government funding of health care is the *least* of the people there's, problems.

 

[Tinyflame]

I can say the ones I care for have a better quality of life than I do, in many respects, they are loved, safe, physical pain managed,cared for, relatively little emotional distress relative to the gravity of their diagnosis, & their needs met (less stress, fear).

I wouldn't have seen this unless someone else hadn't tagged it.

I came to the conclusion days ago, after Jean Vanier died, if you've got help, that's good, if you don't - you don't. Who has the right to decide what has no effect on them, and they care less about, and do not live with? Especially if they add to the burden? IMHO, no one.

 

[shimmerz]

to euthanize me, put me down, if I end up homeless again... which is the option you’ve been supporting.

No, it is not.

The option I am supporting is one that allows the homeless person(s) to ask for euthanasia for themselves. The government (here anyway) is already killing the homeless. We just have bought into the story that the homeless somehow deserve to freeze.be beaten.starve.go without prescription meds and medical help.are harassed.and generally treated in worse ways than a stray dog (at least dogs are picked up and given shelter before they are put down and they aren't blamed for causing their situation). It is twisted an inhumane treatment that people should NOT have to endure. Period.

We are all being fed a bill of goods. Homeless people are 'mentally ill'; 'made wrong choices' (ie they deserve it); 'are worthless bums who leach off of our tax payers money'; are hopelessly addicted to **** (fill in the blanks)...

It's all bullshit. If it bothers people here to think that the homeless should be allowed to die on their own terms, then imagine how painful it is for them to die alone and on the streets without any experience of having been treated humanely. Why? Because it bothers you to see the reality of the situation?

Too bad. Seriously. This euthanasia thing isn't about how it makes YOU feel. It's about trying to imagine how those seeking out euthanasia live's can be improved and how we as a society can be adjusting to help society understand how we can be (collectively) more humane to those who need our compassion. If euthanasia doesn't float your boat, then how CAN you help those in such extreme physical.emotional pain that they literally are fighting to die.

I can't see how arguing for arbitrarily decided murder by govt officials is the right thing.

Not at all what I said. Stop twisting my words.

Do you mind trying on winter Russia? I think we could share hilarious stories.

It's this attitude completely which allows people to minimize this homeless issue. Deflecting, making light of, etc. Let me make this very clear. If you had actually been homeless - you would realize that there is NOTHING hilarious about being homeless. If you were poking fun of the homeless and their situation - shame on you.

I repeat:

If you don’t like the idea of them being released through it by their own choice, then fight for them and their rights. Because they have none and they need your help.

 

[Tinyflame]

I know @Ronin wouldn't do that. :(

Well said @shimmerz . :hug: Except that I don't think it's the 'government' , as much as the indifference of most of us. To think we can sleep at night- why, is the question.

If anyone can't understand why death is preferable to the suffering they are in, they've 'yet' to feel that kind of suffering, IMHO. The ideal is to find the support not to choose it, and the life that can be worth living.

 

[Ronin]

This euthanasia thing isn't about how it makes YOU feel.

Now who is condescending.
Spoilers: It wasn't JMH.

Not at all what I said.

Not only what you said, but what you keep saying, over & over.

Logically, if talking of a murder of a class of people with a common one trait, & take out that it would be by other class of people in the nation, or that it would be a thing of crime just attacking who they feel like... then that leaves you with someone in an official capacity.

Deflecting, making light of, etc.

Stop twisting what I said, & the point I made as well.
My post literally wasn't making light of homelessness.
It was highlighting that one nations' homeless is not the worst of the worst & ONLY homelessness that happens.

& Recommending you look at countries where rounding up, and actual killing, take place routinely, if you would still be so much for euthanasia.
Because I can assure you people commonly want to live.
People who are not just homeless.
People who are missing limbs. Who cannot feed themselves. Not just on a bad day, on every day. People who get as much food monthly as other homeless in the first world countries daily. If at all. People who have a family of six or seven kids depending on them, and maybe three more because of a neighbor that died of something first world totally preventable who they gave their word, once, to take care of them... & sticked to it since.

You are talking of killing people who are not really nobodies...
Yet there you are, talking of them as disposable nobodies.
Let's just kill them, because that is a quick fix to suffering.
It is in their interest, TOO.

Yeah. Really.

I don't GET how it is possible for you to not get you are arguing exactly like genocidal demagogues.

Edited to add: & asking doctors, of all the people, to carry that murder out is just insulting.
Going against everything they trained years for, that they practice, that they oathed, that they live by.