News Does America Need A Civil Revolution?

[track108]

The biggest problem with politics in america is that my side is right and your side is completly out of touch with the reality of the world. I hear this on both sides and i have come to figure out nethier side is right. Its the same with the "looney toon tea party" and the whack job liberals. If the other side speaks out against something your saving grace his holiness obama says they are LOONEY TOONS, both parties are only in it for thier pockets and thier boys pockets, the sooner we figure that out, well it wont matter if we figure it out cause not enough people actually care.
In like a lamb out like a lion.
Im not a dem or a rep im an american i love my country and i hate my government.
LCPL WALTERS
USMC

 

[track108]

I hope the feds dont come knocking on my door for saying that lol. Well maybe then my paranoia would be justified.

 

[jewel]

What purpose does this post serve for a PTSD forum?

 

[track108]

Nothing jewel its in the chit chat section we are just spitballing here.

 

[jewel]

How is this thread pertinent to PTSD?

 

[jewel]

Oh, FYI...I am a proud AMERICAN. I always have been and always will be. We are not perfect and we never will be. We offer refuge to those who need it. We allow anyone in our country, apparently even illegals of which I am opposed. We have a capitalist society of which I do believe in. I don't believe in slanting my views to make it look like we are all good and rosy. Many other countries have done shameful things. Many other countries have sold arms to terrorist countries and offered them refuge. I know we are seen as the bully but that's not how it is. Someone has to be the leader. We lead and others follow. don't blame us if your the follower and not the leader. Maybe it is your country that needs a revolution then.

 

[anthony]

Jewel, this is the chit chat forum, which means it is for general discussion.

I would not call America a leader actually, in-fact, America is looking at how every other country is doing things because we don't have the same issues that America has. If you want to be even more specific, for example, financial policy, Australia leads the world in financial policy and robustness for fiscal policy. Other countries have positives uniquely, and the US is actually now following others, because other countries don't follow the US as a majority, in fact they learn often what not to do so as to avoid the same disastrous results where the US have placed themselves right now. Just look at the US medical system vs. other countries... its a joke to get sick in the US.

If you want to begin trying to pull childish nonsense such as, "don't follow us then" rubbish. I expect that type of response in the school yard, not within a serious topic. Lets please keep the nastiness out, as that is what derails valid political discussion.

The US does affect other countries, as goods and services are traded across borders, which is the foundation for most countries financial viability. The US is commerce heavy, which other countries are invested within / tied into to. It affects us all, its not about who follows who, its about one country doing stupid things, it flows out to other countries by default, so it is within the best interest of all countries these days that we have interest and a say, so to speak, in one another's activities. When the US robs itself blind and exports all its cash through dealing offshore, guess what? The commerical sector collapses, which flows onto others around the world who have invested within your country.

Please don't tell me anyone is naive to actually think a country supports itself in this day! Because it doesn't... that is not how the world works today.

If Australia, as example, decided to stop exporting coal to the US, being one of the major users of coal in the world, alongside China, then by us doing such a thing we would affect not only our own economy, but your economy, which would flow on to other countries globally because we did one thing wrong with one country. The same could be said if the US stopped supplying oil to Australia, or the share that comes through the US... it would have devastating results which would flow on through trade and other areas, price fluctuations, which the end user always pays for.

I think we all have a valid say in what each country is doing these days for this exact reason.

 

[anthony]

On the money Track... why aren't these people putting their pride and bullshit aside, and instead using the best of this, the best of that, etc... piecing together what works vs. what is flawed to fail.

 

[track108]

Vee paying into retirement is a big reason they are protesting. I agree with the workers too though.The reason we are in this bind is we sent alot of our production jobs over seas for cheaper wages and lighter laws such as child labor laws and emission control.
There are 2 types of industry basically, production and service. Production makes money and service makes money off that production. Without production, service has no money to make. Production is what made america what it is today and we have gotten rid of that. The government allowed big business to do this. Why?, the government gets its money from big business.
Big business saw that it could make more money paying some chinese kid 5 cents a day to make shoes than paying some american 10.00 dollars an hour. Wall street started to tank because we dont have production to pay service, so gov't bails wall street out. Big business caused this mess our taxmoney saved their butts, and the ceo's still get huge checks.
The bottom 80% of american people only have 7% of the money in america. The top 1% of americas wealthy have almost 50% of americas money in their pockets. And our gov't has us screaming at eachother about gay marriage and if public servants should pay for their insurance, bah its called diversionary tactics, freak them out about illegal mexicans taking jobs while we rob them blind.
Another thing why cant i get al jazeera on my computer here in america, what happened to freedom of press. They want to keep us deaf dumb and blind to whats going on in this world, and its pretty easy for them because as im gonna say again in this thread for like the 4th time my fellow americans dont care. They even censor the bbc im almost certain on this.
Jewel i feel you it kinda sucks being american. we are always getting bashed. But this is our fault. You put yourself out there and someone is gonna say something.
Thats not to say other countries need or dont need reform its just in this forum its been brought up a few times the injustice thats come from our gov't. Anthony wasnt trying to bash america just starting a thread about something that has come up a few times.
I want to revolt on the simple fact that Veterans affairs screws so many people. I had a friend, he fought by my side in iraq, we came home and we were not the same, he tried to get help from the va and they dicked him around, well he hung himself in 2007, and he is not the only one. He told them he was suicidal for christs sake. They said he was depressed and told him to come back in 3 months, he didnt make it. I have another friend who didnt start getting help till he almost killed a police officer and had a stand-off with police at a hospital. Not to mention my dealings with them. But im still PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, I just dont think my government is justified in many of its actions and dealings with its own people.

 

[mysihba]

At least remember that the US was founded upon revolution and personal freedom. It was and is the "Great Experiment". The founding fathers in the US, regarded freedom as the most personal and important value worth fighting for. Much has gone wrong. The US still tends to spend more in terms of money and lives in defense of other peoples around the world. The UK and Australia has spent lots too. Sometimes the cause is righteous but the Politics screw it all up.

There is someting very wrong with any country that does not keep it's old soldiers happy and healthy, and babies fed.

I'm very PROUD to be....what America was supposed to stand for. I am PROUD of those that serve, fight and die for righteous causes in ALL countries, in all kinds of service.... Politics aside.

More to the point, I think the US is long overdue for revolution. I'm reminded of the "third estate ?" If I am correct, that was the term given to ALL the common people in France prior to that revolution. They were tired of having nothing, getting taxed to death and having nothing to eat while the "royalty" enjoyed the best of everything.

When freedom and "rights" are taken away one little piece at a time, it's hard to notice they are gone, until most of them are gone. That is how and why Poloticians do what they do...and how they do things. Take one little piece at a time and nobody really cares too much, nor do they revolt.

Regardless of image, we (collectively) and our ancestors paid a huge price to try to do the "right thing". American capitalism is not inherently wrong....it is the out of control GREED and corruption that is killing us and...the people that care more about criminal rights(and animal rights and, etc....) than they do crime victims ; care more about calling Vets baby killers than heroes ; cops and Fire/EMS/nurses etc. overpaid system abusers not heroes....and the same applies to many that have PTSD from any cause....shove us in a corner and forget us and then....call us weak and minimize and negate the reasons we have it......It is one thing to be ignorant, and quite another to intentional deny any responsibility for and/or adamently refuse to pay anything to help....out of their arrogant, rich from greed, sick from power....jerk mentality...most of whom never ever really...did anything that mattered, and/or where never a vitim of crime/trauma etc. with no way to pay for the life long damage created.

Any Government (yours or mine) that acts out of greed, a lofty...."we are educated elite and therefore know what's best for you..." attitude shouldn't be tolerated. Mean while, the "real" people around continue to do the dirty work...in the streets, hospitals, military, etc.....and most get screwed, in the end.

Revolt ? Hell yes. 3rd. Estate ? Hell Yes....It's WE the people damn it !! But we the real people I think are far out numbered by the ones that can't talk, write, do simple math, know nothing about history, life.... and others who have become mind washed robots following the "King" and his servants. I thought we escaped that a couple hundred years ago +.

Agree or not, that is why "they" are slowly taking away our "rights" in the US. Like it or not, an unarmed citizen is less likely to protest. Whitness WWll Germany. First they brainwash, then they take away some books, then they punish a few that don't think in the "right" way, then they burn books, then make it hard for the outcasts to live and work, then ban some Churches...and it's mostly tolerated clear up to and including the extermination of millions of Jews and others. You probably remember the famous quote about this...

And you think we can fix this at the voting booth ???

All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

 

[anni]

Oh Lord, the tea party- I refuse to use capitol letters. If ever there were a misapropriation of a term that would be it. The original Tea Party stood for a group of individuals who stood for actual ideals, as in the Real Thing- of freedom from oppresive froms of autocracy. That was specifically a protest against a ridiculous taxation imposed on the Colonies- by an increasingly greedy, unsympathetic ruling class who gouged every bald penny out of the citizens, who had zero rights into the bargain. Sounds a little familiar. Talk about Civil Revolution! The segment of ill-advised, well-finded malcontents now sailing under that flag would choose to take all rights from a hugeeee portion of society, saving only what appears to be white Christian ( and a specific 'Christian' at that, not quite recognizable as such in my opinion by the original man who bore the name Christ ) comfortably circumstanced heavily armed with assault weapons hate mongerers. This appears to be pretty much the platform, evidence to the contrary not being forthcoming. They seem to be calling for their 'Civil Revolution', which is leading many down a blind alley- what they're calling for already exists. Welfare is no longer in existance, immigrants have already been hounded mostly out of the country, that stupid wall no poor Mexican could hope to scale is in the process of being built, there is no health care for anybody who can't afford it, we're in several nice fat wars and everybody thinks Obama is a Muslim. It wouldn't matter if he was, the point being that the conservative faction has manage to turn that entire religion into something 'bad', connect it incorrectly with Obama so out he'll go.

I do feel America deserves the knocks it gets- of course it does. To say we Americans deserve knocking is another story but that's too obvious a point, I think, to get into- at least I hope. It has to be said that Obama DID get elected, and quite seriously so did Al Gore before him, argue what one may. He was at least close enough ( not arguable ) that no, what they like to have LOOK like this huge majority of us behind all this crap are NOT in fact behind it. The noisy parts, the unattractive parts are. I think Obama being elected at all WAS a sort of Civil Revolution. Keeping him there is going to have to be another, actually. No- he hasn't 'kept' his campaign promises- but again that's been smoke and mirrors on the part of the conservatives to have him look an abysmal failure. How could he? He did not have the votes in house and senate- his own people went against him in the end with most of this stuff- he stood up when others failed. He's not Henry IV, who could shock a Parliment into behaving by swiping off an Archbishop's head. ( Could think of a few heads that could go, but I suppose those days are past ) Obama also has the ridiculous way the bills are setup to contend with- he'll have some major help-the-people thing to pass, the conservatatives will tack on something insane like 'This bill also contains a law which states all first born children have to be sold at birth'.( No. of course am not saying that was one- it's an example of how outrageous this stuff gets ) If Obama accepts it, he accepts the insanity also- nobody reports on this nonsense, so he ends up looking like a big ass, they look like the 'won'. Well they did, but not because he did not do his utmost to do what he said he'd do.

Perhaps Civil Revolution is possible, just by keeping the idea alive despite all the smoke and mirrors, all the distractions. It WAS possible to get this president elected despite the best efforts of an unbelievably wealthy, ruthless, well-oiled money/greed machine running full throttle. It means our people are out there underneath all this oil and money, all the banks and war somewhere. I seriously cried so much election night- kind of out of control then figured out why. It was because THAT was why I was so proud to be a big fat normal kinda flaky Yank. Despite what it looks like to the rest of the world, it meant that most of us still mean it.

 

[Vee Lagrome]

Oh Lord, the tea party- I refuse to use capitol letters. If ever there were a misapropriation of a term that would be it. The original Tea Party stood for a group of individuals who stood for actual ideals, as in the Real Thing- of freedom from oppresive froms of autocracy.

I feel exactly the same way. I always use quotations when I mention them, because they aren't "tea party" Republicans, they're "loony toon" Republicans. I don't believe that Obama has ever used that term, Track, but I have heard it come from several political commentators. I mean, look at Michelle Bachmann, for example. What a moron. How the hell did she get elected and then reelected?!

I don't make a habit of calling politicians I don't agree with "stupid" or anything, since there are plenty of conservative politicians who I do not agree with that I believe are intelligent, but most of these "i want my semiauto rifles and 150 rounds of cop-killers so i can shoot at them damn mexicans yee haw" politicians are just beyond stupid. And yes, it can go both ways, there are certainly crazy liberals who believe whatever they believe (haven't met any crazy liberals), but I don't see any of them on the floor in Congress trying to pass a law allowing dogs and cats the right to vote in elections.

I don't see the problem with highly educated politicians. I'd much rather have our lawmakers be extremely well-educated and regularly listening to the average layperson than having morons making laws while the extremely well-educated try to talk some sense into them. Also, the well-educated folk would know what the Tea Party was for and wouldn't be sporting hats with tea bags hanging from it.

Obama also has the ridiculous way the bills are setup to contend with- he'll have some major help-the-people thing to pass, the conservatatives will tack on something insane like 'This bill also contains a law which states all first born children have to be sold at birth'.( No. of course am not saying that was one- it's an example of how outrageous this stuff gets )

LOL. I wouldn't be surprised if that were added in. Some of the amendments that are tacked on are just totally from left field! Yes, it's true that Obama has to sift through a lot of this crazy opposition. That and this constant threat of filibuster. Seriously, I hope that bill is passed requiring anyone who threatens a filibuster to actually follow through with it because I'm so tired of that being used as a stupid hollow trick to get the bill rewritten or shelved when it doesn't need to be. It's childish and a waste of time.

At the same time, I believe that Obama could be doing more. I understand that there is a lot of opposition that is just... crazy, but I would like to be hearing from the person I helped get elected into office. In general, I really feel like he's been too quiet and I'd really like for him to start speaking out more. But I do think his way of doing things has gotten the progressives frustrated enough to start speaking out more, so it has served a purpose, I think.

It means our people are out there underneath all this oil and money, all the banks and war somewhere. I seriously cried so much election night- kind of out of control then figured out why. It was because THAT was why I was so proud to be a big fat normal kinda flaky Yank. Despite what it looks like to the rest of the world, it meant that most of us still mean it.

I cried too and so did my husband. It was an absolutely amazing moment. I also think that John McCain was very graceful in how he handled the news and I liked his speech as well. I think all around, it was a very positive night for most everyone.

Yeah, I know we're definitely behind the times compared to the rest of the developed world *paper bag*, but I think that we do have the opportunity to learn from other countries as far as what worked for them, and who knows? Maybe we can put an American twist on it. (Health care for all plus a free hot dog) I could totally do a hot dog right now! USA! USA! LOL