How A Family Can Be A Cult

[shimmerz]

stamping a label on something based in artificial characteristics

Where are you seeing the artificial characteristics?

 

[Ronin]

@shimmerz, say in this very thread: Abuse and limiting contact with people within a relationship? Is typical for abusive and toxic relationships.

Taking on certain roles, to feed people's power trip needs? Is also typical for abusive relationships, and not exclusive.

Control & manipulation to get control & intimidation tactics and blackmail? Ditto. Abusive, messed up, etc.

None of those things are enough to designate something a cult, just because it's a small number of people involved / the level of their cooperation.

It's many things, and they are bad, and they need be talked about. But labeling them automatically as 'cultic' may not be the most helpful thing to do about them.

All squares are rectangles & not all rectangles are squares.

 

[Freedomfighter]

Absolutely, and family members can be worse because they know your entire health history and can intentionally hurt you that way. I have to deal with predators that do that, including my ex.

 

[shimmerz]

just because it's a small number of people involved / the level of their cooperation.

So you are saying that it is the number of people involved that make it a cult?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

My issue is with stamping a label on something based in artificial characteristics where those characteristics may not be enough to define the phenomenon.

It can mess up recovery quite a bit, and mess up an already trauma-difficult way of viewing the world.

Ok, I can agree with that. From my research (which is sadly a ton) is generally a (or a few) leader(s) that convine the group of something very irrational or what others would call "crazy" or nonescence or sinister. Religon is an "easy" way to get followers but it doesn't have to be religon.

Most that are cults and cult-like bordering a cult are almost always power driven. "I get to do XYZ to you and you must allow it" and "you must do XYZ for me".

There is a dynmatic of a leader and followers and a dictated belief made by the leader that the followers follow.

Generally anyway. I don't like to say always for anything but the cult i grew up in, all the cults I have researched, and those cult-like that bordered a cult all had that dynamtic.

Most would define:

cult
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

1. "the cult of St. Olaf"
   • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
     "a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
     synonyms: Link Removed, Link Removed, Link Removed,Link Removed, Link Removed, Link Removed, Link Removed,Link Removed
     "a religious cult"

But also defines as:

a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.
"a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for,passion for, idolization of, devotion to,worship of, veneration of
"the cult of eternal youth in Hollywood"

Link Removed

So, depending on dynamtics, this could be "a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing."

"synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for,passion for, idolization of, devotion to,worship of,..."

So it would depend on how you would want to define the word "cult". Is it a traditional type of cult as one would know it and I grew up in? No. But, there are addtl ways to define that and look at it.

But labeling them automatically as 'cultic' may not be the most helpful thing to do about them.

I agree, name it what it is and if you don't you can indeed hinder rather then help.

I am not disagreeing with you but rather adding other perspectives.

it is the number of people involved that make it a cult?

Nope, a cult isn't defined as the number of people.

Again, I am NOT saying this is a cult. My opinion is that it isn't but it also has a lot of dynamtics that would be seen in a cult. It helps to picks those out and work on those, in my opinion, then to try to label the whole.

Again, just my opinions.

 

[shimmerz]

Again, I am NOT saying this is a cult.

Understood. And I would never (if you have followed my posts) be easily led into believing something that doesn't ring true with me, but appreciate the warning Lost.

I appreciate all of the effort you put into helping me with this, all of you. I am going to say, knowing what I know, this has enough cult like features that I need to just back off and away from everything and anything that relates to the god and dogma of the family. Wait until they figure it out.

This has been helpful. Thank you.

 

[Ronin]

So you are saying

No. Not at all. The opposite. That one trait or a cluster of traits don't yet define a thing, unless also /other/, and more defining criteria, are met.

Aka abusive marriages? Not a cult.
Abusive marriages with a cultist? A different thing.
Abusive marriages resulting in recruitment into a cult? Another thing.

One doesn't equal the other.
The same with families.

 

[scout86]

I think it's true that different situations can have things in common. Leaving a cult and leaving a dysfunctional family both can be hard in ways that are similar. The way that a cult leader controls the cult may be similar to the way some people control their families. The way people decide to let others do their thinking for them might be similar. Understanding one might provide insights into dealing with the other, even if they aren't identical.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Understanding one might provide insights into dealing with the other, even if they aren't identical.

That's what I was trying to say but I have a horrible ways with words. Thank you!

 

[scout86]

You do fine! :hug:

 

[shimmerz]

Understanding one might provide insights into dealing with the other, even if they aren't identical.

Which it absolutely has through the input in this thread. Thanks Scout.

 

[Friday]

Can you expand on this please Friday? Can you describe the contrast?

We can compare & contrast ANY 2 or more systems or individuals. :D

Cults & Abusive Families
Hitler & Santa Claus
Kindergarten & Prison

^^^
I chose some markedly different C&C ones below just to reframe (because it's easier to see the structure of a thing, usually, if you use topics that aren't emotionally charged).

If we JUST compare? Then, yes. Cults & Abusive Families are the same! As are Hitler & Santa, as well as Kindergarten & Prison. But they're not actually the same, are they? There's actually a very marked difference between Hitler & Santa, or K & Prison. That's where the Contrast comes in. It's not a complete picture if you JUST look at the comparisons.

Wanna really bake your noodle? I can compare all SIX of those things together. (So can you). I can make the other 5 show their points of comparison, even present really convincing arguments as to the merits of those comparisons. But without the contrast? It's all bullshit. Or, rather, the conclusion is bullshit without the points of contrast.

And that's where the disservice comes in. No matter which of the 6 (or all of them) that you're comparing, your conclusions are going to be wrong.