I Feel Totally Discriminated Against!!

[FindingMyself88]

I am the angriest I have ever been!! Some of you I have talked to about my issues pertaining to my apartment and getting a Service Dog in Training. Quick overview, the apartment manager kept telling me no even after I contacted a lawyer and told them of my rights. Well I finally got to go past her to the corporate office. I have a note from my doctor's office stating my need for a service dog and that I have the opportunity to train my own SD. They started giving me problems about our other 2 dogs as well. They are now saying that they weren't suppose to let us have apartment with new carpet but they did, although nothing was said to us either way when we signed the lease. They also were aware of the two plus me getting a service dog before we even signed the lease.

I explained that the two dogs act as ESDs (emotional support dogs) but that they are incapable of helping with certain aspects of my disability and that they could not go in public with me. They are STILL not allowing me to have a service dog, although they say they are not. They said they would need a second letter from my doctor stating 1) What my disability is 2) Why I need a larger dog and 3) why the other two dogs are important. By law they are not allowed to ask about my disability!!! They didn't even say that if I got rid of one of my current dogs (which is NOT an option) that I could have my large breed service dog. I am keeping all of the letters my doctors have wrote, a copy of the ADA laws, and the letters I have received from the apartment. The lawyer was already out of the office today, but I will be looking forward to a call from her tomorrow!

I have had so many panic attacks over this situation it is not funny! My PTSD is making me feel defeated, but I know the law is on my side. I expected to have public access issues about the SDiT, but not this! If I hadn't had this past weekend with Cady to know how much I will benefit, I would just give up! I am sad to admit, this has even caused some suicidal thoughts…..

 

[Deleted member 12723]

You are stronger than you know. Keep on working for your rights.

I used to live in a mobile home park and they kept on changing the rules. I hated it.

I am sorry you are having to deal with this right now.

I wish you the best. Be strong and do not give up.

 

[ghotiff]

I'm so sorry they are being so difficult and I understand how hard this must be for you.

If it helps...from what you have posted the law is on your side, so you will win this battle. They are trying to do everything they can but try to ignore it, the law is on your side.

 

[anthony]

1) What my disability is 2) Why I need a larger dog and 3) why the other two dogs are important.

It's actually not discrimination to ask a person to quantify their disability via an accredited document. It is discrimination to actually discriminate against that person, meaning, not give them rental because of a qualified disability animal, however; they can give the person rental accommodation they see fit to accommodate pets. Saying no, and making adjustments, are very different things under disability law.

It actually annoys me when a person screams discrimination because someone refuses to just accept what they say. People can often see a dog for blind and hearing, they can't for other disabilities. It is not discrimination to ask you for accreditation of such recognition that your pet is for disability purposes. That is a question, not discrimination. If the person made fun of you, insulted you, or such, due to having an emotional support dog, then that is discrimination. It is not unrealistic to quantify your want of 3 dogs, when one dog is proven to adequately be an ESD for an accredited disability from your physician.

I'm sure all countries and states have their slight differences, but overall discrimination laws in countries that recognise such are generally close to the same. Having a disability does not mean people just have to believe you, especially when they can't see it for themselves. You don't need to tell them what it is, but you do need to have a certification for your animal stating it is an accredited and trained service dog. Blind and hearing dogs typically have an banner they wear showing their accreditation as a working dog. Again... a service dog versus dogs (plural), is also not discrimination. I doubt anyone is going to state you NEED several dogs for emotional support, versus a single dog.

I don't see a compromise from your post above, only your want, want, want... regardless the inconvenience to other tenants with you having 3 dogs in an apartment building. One dog... sure. Three dogs... I would be complaining as a tenant, and moving out... thus there is the issue that will win in law for the building owners. If other tenants move out due to multiple dogs barking or such within the complex, you are now causing the owner/s significant distress to accompany multiple pets versus a single accredited dog, when they're losing tenants due to you. Compromise is key normally.

It sucks that you're having a symptom spike, but to be perfectly honest, this doesn't sound like much give and take now. Apartment complexes can change the rules as they deem fit, and you have to comply, discrimination or not. It will be interesting to see whether they give in or fight it due to your having 3 dogs and that being against their rules for apartment living. There isn't just you in an apartment complex, and the managers job is to ensure the harmony of all tenants living so closely together.

 

[FindingMyself88]

@anthony While I appreciate your response, I need to clarify some things.

First off, as I stated above, they have a note from my doctor stating I have a disability and need for a Service dog. They are saying they have to know my EXACT disability. I also explained to them the need for a larger breed dog.

The current 2 dogs are ESDs and a family pet (although both help with certain things). The other dog would be training to be a Service Dog to help with the other aspects, both physical and psychiatric, and would go everywhere with me. I did state the difference to the apartment.

Secondly, In the state of Alabama, a Service Dog in Training has the same rights as a trained certified SD. I contacted a lawyer to make sure. I also looked up the fair housing act, and it states that they do not distinguish between ESDs, SDs, and SDiTs.

Thirdly, They knew that I would be getting a 3rd dog to be a service animal before we even signed the lease and they were okay with it then.

Fourthly, We make sure our dogs do not bark.Other dogs in the complex bark more than ours and people are also louder in our complex than us. Our dogs did bark at first, but I have been working with them on not barking and now they hardly ever if at all bark unless we are outside, even then its just one of them and its not a lot.

Fifthly I have compromised in that I am not going with my breed of choice, a German Shepherd since it is considered a bully breed. I am actually looking at dogs closer to their weight limit. Although let it be known, they were okay with a German Shepherd from the program that I am now no longer going with. The program took me off the fast track since I am not a war vet and it would be about 3 years before I got a dog. According to the letter from my T, I need the larger dog to help with certain aspects of my disability that until I receive the help from the SD, we will not be able to go much further in therapy. Although I have not shown this to them yet as this would give them more clues to my disability. The reason is I have a serious issue with dissociating and normal grounding skills are not working, neither are the smaller dogs.

I am also going to be working with a lady who trains dogs and attend training classes as needed. In fact for the first few weeks/months I will be living in my home town so that I can train with this lady. She trained a therapy and service dog before.

I have been in contact with an advocacy lawyer since the beginning and made sure I understand my rights. The only thing that isn't clear is whether they can make us get rid of one of my current dogs. However, they are not saying if I did that I could get the larger SD. They are saying they will not accept a larger breed dog at all. If they would state that if I got rid of one of my dogs, it would be different. I could give one of my dogs back to my grandmother to keep until we could finish our lease and move out.

I am normally a totally understanding person and normally do not stand up for myself. Everyone says I have the gift of seeing both sides of the story. I did see how the bully breed would be bad. But when you agree to something and then deny you said it, you are in the wrong. However, this is something I NEED according to all my physicians and my Therapist. They all are telling me to stand my ground and obtain my rights. I know from spending time with my friend's therapy dog that a larger breed dog is what I need to help with my dissociation. I have taught my smaller dogs some grounding tasks, but they are simply too small. Plus they are chihuahua and chihuahua mix, so they would not make a good SD.

 

[cherryblossom]

Please feel free to ignore, since I don't have any advice. I'm just curious what difference the size of a dog makes? What can a large dog do, that a small dog can't? Just interested, that's all.

 

[FindingMyself88]

@cherryblossom That is a fine question. I have tried the grounding techniques with both small dogs and large dogs. I train my smaller dogs to lay on my chest and lick my face. One of them would even paw at me. But when I am in a deep dissociative state or just coming out of a flashback or nightmare, they simply cannot get my attention. When I had Cady to try this past weekend, she was able to draw me out of a dissociative state with some persistence. She started out pawing my leg, when that didn't work she would start pawing more vigorously at my arm and side while whining. One time this didn't work, so she jumped up on me and her weight drew me out. Same with my friend's dog. Her dog is actually trained to lay in your lap against your chest and paw you if needed.

He is 45lbs and Cady was 80lbs. The dog I am going to look at tomorrow is the same breed as my friend's dog, a boxer/lab mix that weighs about 50lbs. The apartment's weight limit is 40lbs, so this would only be 10lbs over.

 

[catjudo]

When I had Cady to try this past weekend, she was able to draw me out of a dissociative state with some persistence. She started out pawing my leg, when that didn't work she would start pawing more vigorously at my arm and side while whining. One time this didn't work, so she jumped up on me and her weight drew me out.

Wow, that sounds like a lot of training and progress for just one weekend. I'm impressed. What happened to this dog? Why not continue with her training? Sorry if I'm asking something that's already been answered.

 

[FindingMyself88]

@catjudo I know, but some dogs are just sensitive to your emotions and do this naturally. I did not train her to do this. The only thing I had started training was to alert me with her paw. The problem with her is she was so sensitive to my anxiety that she was not able to remain calm. She began getting over protective and aggressive of anyone that came near me or her.

 

[anthony]

I will agree that your first point is discrimination, no question.

Second point has no relevance.

Third point, apartment managements CAN change the rules at any time THEY deem fit. It is their right, not yours, and it is not discrimination for them to do that. If they say one animal, then one animal is the rule to live in that complex. They have the law on their side. The only time that law would not apply is if you had two people with accredited disabilities living together, and thus both have one animal.

Forth point, still irrelevant, you want 3 dogs claiming them all necessity that one dog can do.

Fifth point... well... you don't seem to care much obviously about your apartment management rules, by your own admission:

The apartment's weight limit is 40lbs, so this would only be 10lbs over.

It is not discrimination if they tell you one dog, and that dog is your ESD, whether in training or not. It is also not discrimination if they move you to another apartment with used carpet due to you having animals. I don't believe they can limit an "actual" service dog to 40lbs though, if that was the only animal that can best suit your disability needs and is accredited as a disability dog. But you want three, not one... so I think they will win in some areas if you go to court. ESD's also aren't limited to a big breed, such as a seeing eye dog, for example, so they probably could enforce that 40lb rule as a result based on your disability.

Will be interesting. I honestly don't believe you're open to compromising though... three dogs is excessive for an apartment. You can achieve emotional needs from one pet, dog, cat, bird, whatever the case... emotional needs are sketchy to prove in court in relation to symptom reduction.

 

[FindingMyself88]

I don't believe they can limit an "actual" service dog to 40lbs though, if that was the only animal that can best suit your disability needs and is accredited as a disability dog. But you want three, not one... so I think they will win in some areas if you go to court. ESD's also aren't limited to a big breed, such as a seeing eye dog, for example, so they probably could enforce that 40lb rule as a result based on your disability.

The ESDs are under the weight limit, they are no bigger than 10lbs. The dog that would be the Service Animal would be the one over 40lbs due to my needs.

They actually allow a 2 "pet" limit. We have 2 pets. According to ADA a Service Animal is NOT a pet. I never said the two ESD's were necessary, but that I benefited from them. If they told me we had to get rid of one of them to have the service animal, then I would have to make a choice. Honestly, my choice would be to get rid of the one pet that is "my" dog so that my parent's aren't forced to give up theirs. After all, I would just give her to my grandparents. However, my parents are fighting this. But the apartment is not only arguing the 3 dog issue, but the large breed issue.

I could understand if they changed their laws from 2 pets to 1 pet. But it is still 2 pets and as I stated above, the SD is not a pet. They are arguing the allowance of the service animal, not the other two dogs. They are saying it is reasonable accommodations to allow the 2 pets. EVERYONE is allowed the 2 pets, that is no exception made for me for my disability.

 

[anthony]

Service dogs are still classified as a pet. Dog, cat, bird, take your pick, my understanding is under laws for body corporates and such, they are still pets. So if your building has a two pet limit, then I think one will go... but yes, body corporates can't overrule state and Federal laws for discrimination, in that if your disability requires a pet over 40lb, I honestly don't think they can do a thing about that one, as that would be discrimination IF it is medically proven that you require the larger dog, and a smaller breed cannot achieve the disability outcome.

A Labrador Retriever used for all seeing dogs are between 60 - 80lb, and there is no way body corporate rules for apartments would overrule a blind owner or tenants requirement for that dog based on State and Federal laws, as they are the dog of choice for seeing eye disability and cost so much to train.

Emotional service pets though... quite honestly a grey area, because nearly any pet can achieve the requirement due to being an emotional connectivity to the animal that soothes and calmes the person. Emotional service pets are tricky, even under discrimination laws. Will be interesting to see which way it goes though.