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is it him or men in general?

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MODERATOR VOICE:
While the topic of perpetrator gender is, in fact, a valid topic that deserves fair air time, this was not the OP's original topic.
If members would like to start a civil conversation about perpetrator genders, please do so on a different thread. Please leave this thread to the discussion of the OP's concerns around perpetrators she has experienced.
 
To kind of chime in on the question at hand, first, let me say that I see a pattern forming, do you, @Strangelongtrip ?
Are you in trauma therapy at all? There are reasons that we fall into the same habits, are attracted to similar TYPES of people and find ourselves perpetually repeating things over and over. The question really is finding out why and then making conscious decisions from there to not repeat those practices.
You mentioned 'bad things' happening around people who were using or drinking. Do you have hobbies where you could interact with people where these activities would not be practiced?
 
One time when I saw him he made me walk home drunk in a city, although it was a safe area. He may have expected me to call an uber, but I don't remember that being a conversation and I just walked. I was really, really drunk. I was fine and made it home and it was actually a great walk, but this put me off some. The only other thing that would be unsafe about H is he drinks a lot, but he told me on the phone he had stopped after doing something stupid while drunk. I think what happened is he assaulted someone, and I guess that's freaking me out. He seemed mortified, and had taken responsibility for his actions, and him and the friend are okay now. I feel like I may have done something similar but don't remember if it really happened. Some part of me wants to punish myself for this.

That he thought you were responsible enough to get home safely (which you were, and you did), and decided to stop drinking after doing something stupid that he regrets... to me? Sound like marks in his favour. Rather than the opposite.

Whether or not that means he’s a good guy, or someone you want in your life? No idea. Making 2 reasonable decisions in no way paints a person’s character.
I feel like H could be dangerous, but I also wonder if it's just a trauma response to never being in a healthy relationship or friendship with a man that wasn't a rapist.
I think ^^this^^ right here is probably the foundation.

If ALL of the men in your life have been rapists? Then you have yet to experience the wonders of mediocrity, general suckiness, and the wide wide world of “great guy, don’t like him”.

It’s a standards issue.

The VAST majority of men aren’t rapists. But you also won’t like most of them, just because of personality differences.

The whole all-or-nothing aspect / cognitive distortion that’s so common will want to paint all kinds of lightweight idiots and jerks waaaaay outside of their class as heavyweight rapists, people you simply don’t like also as rapists... and then because it’s the gift that keep on giving? The reverse. Minimizing seriously f*cked up, toxic, terrible individuals & behavior as “they must be great!” & “this is how I should be treated” ...if you’ve decided they’re not a rapist. :facepalm: Black and white reasoning? Just gets us in a helluva lot of trouble when dealing with people. Because people aren’t all good or all bad.

If women are 3 dimesional to you? Can exist in Hundreds or even Thousands, of different places along the whole “What kind of person is this” & “do I like them?” double helix? It will make it easier for you to start a collection of boring, irritating, infuriating, & still completely harmless men. Which will also allow you to see the gems. It’s a win win to start seeing people as 3 dimensional, but when I say easier? Because you have a group you already do that with? That doesn’t mean it will be easy. Just easier to reality check yourself with, than if you believed at the gut level that all women commit COCSA. It’s still going to be a bit of a journey.
 
You do realize you're on a ptsd forum for men and women right, @Lumos?
Sure but OP is talking about men, not women.

Yes.

You know why this is, right? Most people who perpetrate sexual violence are serial perpetrators.
So most random men in the street are more likely to be victims of sexual violence than perpetrators of it? Do you have stats to back that up please?
 
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I hope you're around better nicer people now!!

Thank you for the wish! :)

You know....I was around far nicer and some really wonderful people for a long time.

And then I was not. ;) More below.

I feel like for the most part I've broken the pattern, but it's SO hard for me to say this person is treating me badly, so I need to leave them. My best friend says I'll take 500 kicks from someone before I realize they're bad for me. I feel like maybe I don't do that as badly anymore, but it's still something I struggle with.

This is important. I was a tough kid and was considered a "force of nature" during my career. I had a long healthy relationship and I really thought my early scars were "cured" as I exhibited no symptoms as an adult. I had a LT partner, built a career, successful etc! Looking back there were little nagging leftovers like my nightmares etc.

The thing is when it comes to a close interpersonal relationship ... it is my achilles heel. I had/have residual "programming" and it was kept in check until life stressors came along. My LT ended amicably but it left a wound I didn't recognize and it led me right to an abusive partner. I absolutely did not believe it would be possible for me to get into a situation like this after having done so well for decades. For my entire adult life. Now it all makes sense but I literally destroyed my life and everything I built when I let this person...my husband, enter my life. What I went though with him flared my PTSD to new heights and it caused grave damage which I will not be able to repair. I didn't have the self esteem to stand up against a predator, and "street smart" me...was so naive it never occurred to me such a person would set a trap. But looking back...3 months into our marriage he did some chilling things and it is so clear now. But my PTSD also left me vulnerable..I lacked the wherewithal at the time to recognize the severity of my situation...pack my things and RUN.

Sounds awful I know. It was. But why I say this is to caution you ....do not brush under the rug that you allow folks to treat you badly. This can seem mild but affects you in ways you may not see. In the workplace, friends etc etc.

Your friends comment sounds well intended and sometimes our friends see us clearer than we see ourselves. I so SO wish I had talked with a therapist as a young(er) person..even today it seems impossible what happened to me. I had a vulnerability that was caustic and lurking for the right opportunity. And now I can see how it manifested in other subtle ways that weren't as hurtful but caused me problems.

I say this as I just hope to spare someone else what I experienced. Talk to a therapist, work on your assertiveness and expecting better treatment from others. It is a life critical skill and we often got shorted in that part of our development.

Just my 0.02, Take care!

Whirlwind
 
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The only other thing that would be unsafe about H is he drinks a lot, but he told me on the phone he had stopped after doing something stupid while drunk. I think what happened is he assaulted someone, and I guess that's freaking me out.

But, how do you know that what that stupid thing was, was assulting someone? There are a millon stupid things one can do while drunk that would lead to one to want to quit drinking that wouldn't be anywhere near or even in the same ballpark as assulting someone. Did he give tell you that or are you maybe projecting that onto him?

I feel like H could be dangerous, but I also wonder if it's just a trauma response to never being in a healthy relationship or friendship with a man that wasn't a rapist.

Yes! I think you feel like he's not safe because you have no experience with safe men. I had this same issue. What helped was my therapist. Who is a man. I practiced feeling safe with him and then was able to slowly practice outside of him. At the moment we are practicing learning how to small talk with people in order to meet people. I personally have an issue with people in general. People terrify me. Why? Because all of my experiences with people were abusive. But most people aren't abusive. Rationally I know that but my damaged PTSD brain doesn't. So, you start small, with something that feels safe or is close to feeling safe and work up, if you will. Small talk doesn't feel safe. I'd rather stay in my isolated bubble/shell but that isn't healthy. But I can small talk. It's just a challenge but I can do that. Something like hanging out with someone is way too far. I have to learn the smaller stuff first. If that makes sense.

My point is, start with something small with H. Not drinking or drugs. But maybe lunch. Or hang out in a populated area. Something that feels a bit safer and then go from there, always challenging yourself. What helps me is to name why I am feeling a certian way. "I don't feel H is safe because I have never had experiences with safe men" for instance. Then you can sort of tell that it's not H or anything H is doing or not doing but rather your own experiences.

We often project our own feelings and thoughts onto others. It's so hard to navigate many times. Hopefully this made sense and helped some.
 
Are you in trauma therapy at all? There are reasons that we fall into the same habits, are attracted to similar TYPES of people and find ourselves perpetually repeating things over and over. The question really is finding out why and then making conscious decisions from there to not repeat those practices.
You mentioned 'bad things' happening around people who were using or drinking. Do you have hobbies where you could interact with people where these activities would not be practiced?

Yes I am! I've been in therapy for technically four years, but I don't count the first two years because that therapist made me worse and actually blamed me for all of my trauma. I think I know I repeat that problem, but I am so terrified to let new people in sometimes because I'm like...what if I'm still repeating the problem?

I honestly am just starting to get into hobbies again. I felt like they were useless for a long time, and most of my hobbies were physical activity and I have injuries that make them kind of dangerous now. I loved riding horses, rollerblading, skateboarding, playing sports--and I'm terrified to start again because of the injuries. So I just kind of...do nothing. I love photography too and writing, but I'm not sure how to do that with a person. Writing seems really solitary but H likes photography so we could probably do something with that!


If ALL of the men in your life have been rapists? Then you have yet to experience the wonders of mediocrity, general suckiness, and the wide wide world of “great guy, don’t like him”.

It’s a standards issue.

The VAST majority of men aren’t rapists. But you also won’t like most of them, just because of personality differences.

There's been a few mediocrity and general suck haha but I wasn't close with them. I've experienced the same about women, though. I really did not mean to start a thread where people dug into the "xyz gender is evil" narrative and wish I worded it differently. My standards have definitely gotten better. I have great close friends. If I don't like someone, I just don't talk to them. I dropped my last "toxic" female friend--who honestly was sexually violent towards people before too. I don't think it's a gender thing. I think it's just a cognitive distortion I've built in my head around men. I also probably feel a bitterness that I spent so many years dating men because I felt like I had to, when in reality I'm mainly attracted to women. There's whole forums dedicated to that, I won't get into it here, but I think I have some walls up about that.


The whole all-or-nothing aspect / cognitive distortion that’s so common will want to paint all kinds of lightweight idiots and jerks waaaaay outside of their class as heavyweight rapists, people you simply don’t like also as rapists... and then because it’s the gift that keep on giving? The reverse. Minimizing seriously f*cked up, toxic, terrible individuals & behavior as “they must be great!” & “this is how I should be treated” ...if you’ve decided they’re not a rapist. :facepalm: Black and white reasoning? Just gets us in a helluva lot of trouble when dealing with people. Because people aren’t all good or all bad.

If women are 3 dimesional to you? Can exist in Hundreds or even Thousands, of different places along the whole “What kind of person is this” & “do I like them?” double helix? It will make it easier for you to start a collection of boring, irritating, infuriating, & still completely harmless men. Which will also allow you to see the gems. It’s a win win to start seeing people as 3 dimensional, but when I say easier? Because you have a group you already do that with? That doesn’t mean it will be easy. Just easier to reality check yourself with, than if you believed at the gut level that all women commit COCSA. It’s still going to be a bit of a journey.

Thank you @Friday this is really helpful! I even struggle getting out of the black and white thinking with my friends I love and think are amazing (most times). I've played what I call the flip flop game, but I think it's also called splitting. One day I'd love them and then one day something would happen that would offend me or insult me and I would want to friend dump them. I've gotten better at this over time, but it's still difficult.

I absolutely did not believe it would be possible for me to get into a situation like this after having done so well for decades. For my entire adult life. Now it all makes sense but I literally destroyed my life and everything I built when I let this person...my husband, enter my life. What I went though with him flared my PTSD to new heights and it caused grave damage which I will not be able to repair.

Ah man, I'm sorry all that happened. This is just a side rant, I hope it's okay to voice this: I think I fear that too, at a level, that I will not see something in someone and I'll end up in a situation like I used to be in. I really am terrified of dating people. I have tried everything to avoid it, I go on one off dates and they ghost or I ghost and I don't check in. It's like...I'm happy alone and there's so much that could go wrong. Obviously, there's so much that could go right, but I've never been in a romantic relationship that wasn't toxic or downright abusive and I don't know how I'd handle such a thing, or what I can expect from it.


There are a millon stupid things one can do while drunk that would lead to one to want to quit drinking that wouldn't be anywhere near or even in the same ballpark as assulting someone. Did he give tell you that or are you maybe projecting that onto him?

It 100% could be me projecting. He didn't get into details, I think it embarrassed him. I wish I could just get over this.

Yes! I think you feel like he's not safe because you have no experience with safe men. I had this same issue. What helped was my therapist. Who is a man. I practiced feeling safe with him and then was able to slowly practice outside of him. At the moment we are practicing learning how to small talk with people in order to meet people. I personally have an issue with people in general. People terrify me. Why? Because all of my experiences with people were abusive.

My therapist is a guy but I do this weird thing where there's this disconnect. I can't connect man to him. Like, he just seems like a person. I dunno it's weird. I'm like a gd "I don't see gender" person but I'm also not? Idk lol. I think that I could do small talk with men for a while, I've talked to a few online and all on my social media and it's been fine (other than the barrage of Hello dear hello beautiful) People terrified me too for a long time but now I feel like I'm kind of....apathetic about them. That's a rant fort another day.
 
Writing seems really solitary but H likes photography so we could probably do something with that!
Actually I was thinking of just getting together with new people and doing something.
Have you checked out MeetUp? People get together and do things like write and then critique each others writing to help them become better writers and even going out on hikes to learn more about photography.
That way you get exposure to people in group settings doing healthy activities.
 
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