News Pell Appeals to High Court of Australia

[blackemerald1]

This is such a big thing for me though I have no personal investment in the outcome.

I've been watching and waiting on this decision and often times thinking of how the victim is feeling.

He's never ever allowed himself to be seen publicly nor has he made any statements to media. There is a Court order protecting his identity. Oh.. that's another thing that's difficult to understand. The defense tried to out him... sort of name & shame him eh?? So dodgy! Talk about causing so much more pain.

I really respect him the victim/complainant.

He is trying to get on with his life and yet how can he.. with this proceeding going on and on for decades now?

He must be so tired, so sick it all. Let alone the actual offending.

 

[somerandomguy]

As always it comes down to the fact that there are two sets of rules: one for rich and/or powerful people, and one for everyone else. There's no way Pell would have been granted appeal after appeal after appeal if he wasn't the Great and Awesome Cardinal Pell, Prince of the Holy See and beloved of all Australian Catholics. It makes me sick.

 

[blackemerald1]

There's no way Pell would have been granted appeal after appeal after appeal if he wasn't the Great and Awesome Cardinal Pell, Prince of the Holy See and beloved of all Australian Catholics. It makes me sick.

^Not quite right. His defence team must meet certain criteria to go to the high court. I know somebody who did, and they had no money at all!

Anyway, now the High Court has reserved its decision. This means he, Pell, has to wait in prison. He would have been hoping the doors of the prison would have swung open on the day his appeal was heard I guess.

It could be days, weeks, months.

The news service is saying the prosecutor came under heavy questioning from the Judges yesterday.

In particular, the decision to show the Victorian Court of Appeal a video of the victim giving testimony. I'm not sure why that would be so significant - the demeanour of a witness when giving testimony is often very relevant to the veracity & general character of the witness. For instance, if somebody stops and stumbles over answering or makes a mess of remembering things, often the way they deliver that testimony is very telling. Not saying it's right or wrong but body language & non verbal behaviour is always relevant.

I suppose for those not wanting Pells conviction quashed it's showing a period of deliberation by the High Court. But for those wanting him released this would be really frustrating.

Pell was not present at the hearing. He awaits the decision in his prison cell. If he's not successful he's due for parole in 2022 I think.

 

[Sideways]

The High Court has reserved its decision on whether they will give special leave to appeal. We're in for a 3 month wait.

 

[blackemerald1]

Pell has had his conviction quashed. It was an unanimous decision. He will be released from prison. Probably today.

I cannot but feel this is a big blow for victims where the evidence is primarily that of victim against accused. This is the most frightening aspect in my view because so very many prosecutions are brought where there is only a victim & accused.

Apparently the High court decided that the appeal, based on Pells opportunity to commit the offences, was not given enough credence and several other opinions relating to the jury & their deliberations.

The Judgement from the High court is quite lengthy so I'm not aware of all of it's grounds for the decision.

 

[Sideways]

I'm incredibly disappointed, but sadly I'm not surprised.

There's a lot to process. I may come back to the issue when it's had time to sink in.

 

[blackemerald1]

I really had a feeling that this would be the outcome too. I'm profoundly disappointed and find this all triggering.

As much as I have so much faith in our legal system, I feel that the prosecution has been required to exclude doubt or any possibility of it and not so much 'beyond reasonable doubt'. There's a massive difference and I don't think there are many situations these days, particularly in historical sex offences, where excluding all doubt is possible.

I feel so sorry for the victim. I know exactly how he would be feeling right now and I'm feeling like I'm falling. Again.

 

[somerandomguy]

Religion will run roughshod over justice. Always. We will never win against religion, sad to say.

I support extralegal forms of justice for clergy members, such as what was done to John Geoghan in prison. A pity that couldn't have happened to Pell.

 

[Ronin]

There are no 'extralegal' forms of justice SRG.

There's the legal one and then illegal actions.
That are not, by the very definition, justice...
But retribution and vendettas and what not.

And 'what was done'? Please.
It's still people carrying it out.
People who can get used up and traumatized by what they do.

People who risk themselves, and everyone around them, to *other* people pissed off with their 'justice' stints.

So can we not go this BS vigilante route in the face of tragedic unjust outcome, or?

I'll wait.

 

[blackemerald1]

tragedic unjust outcome, or?

^You're so right. It is tragic & there are no winners. Not even Pell. Cos whatever was lost is now always lost. Prison time by an old man does not bring back a life that was lost, perhaps because of the heavy load he carried from being abused. Nor, of the other victim who has told his story, his trauma, exposed his vulnerable underbelly over & over again to so many disbelievers.

The taste of justice was so fleeting wasn't it? But now he, the victim whose identity will always be a secret unless he himself chooses to go public, will have to learn how lonely it is to be cast into the ever growing number of the unbelieved.

We sadly hold him close. And completely come to understand that just because the truth is not enough to find justice, it is still the truth.

I've heard & listened to so many people casting doubt upon this victims story. But none can answer me when I've asked, why, why, why would a person who has struggled for so long to live a ordinary life after suffering so much trauma, do it to themselves?

Why face the court & be cross examined into exhaustion like he was? Why risk & suffer even more?

There was no money in it.
There was no fame in it.
There was really just about, if you're a betting person, no likelihood of any justice in it? So why do it?
Why put themselves through it?

And finally, now we can say that there was no Justice to be found in doing it.

Because it was the truth? Is that enough? Idk.. I live with my truth every day & found no justice. I'm not sure I believe in the concept of justice anymore.

 

[Sideways]

I'm not sure I believe in the concept of justice anymore.

Not for victims of these crimes. Our criminal justice system fails at every stage.

Am with you - right now, the suffering of witness J, and the witness who had already taken his life, and their many supporters. Thoughts are with them. Their individual courage has not been met with similar, and very necessary, courage from our justice system.

It is a very sad day. With no winners. Only decades more work to be done before justice can be something victims reasonably aspire to as part of their healing.

In the meantime, the rest of us must find ways to heal without it. Perhaps finding solace, and validation, in each other, instead. And to that end? ? to you @blackemerald1 , and everyone on the ass end of this horrible life journey with us.

 

[blackemerald1]

Perhaps finding solace, and validation, in each other, instead

:hug: to you @Sideways. Only those that know this feeling can understand. It sucks.