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News Us politics - read first post before comment

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and saying this shut the doors for other nations to make up there own minds about their own capital
Actually, the Palestinians, in the event that they actually get a country as opposed to occupied territories, have already declared that their capital is Jerusalem.

Personally, I couldn't care less what the capital of Israel is. It's just that, if Trump is really interested in helping negotiate a Middle East peace agreement, like he said he was, this probably isn't a real helpful way to start. We just took a side on one of the biggest issues of the situation. I've got to agree with all the world leaders who've said that this step means the US can't be considered an honest broker of any peace deal. "Honest" in the sense of unbiased anyway.
They were killing each other before we existed, and I believe they would be even if we did not exist
There's definitely truth to that. There's a history of warfare in that region, just like there is pretty much anywhere else 2 or more groups of humans live in geographic proximity. In this particular case, things got a whole lot worse when the area was partitioned at the end of WWII. But, we can't actually go back an undo that, or the way it was done. If peace is going to be negotiated, it's going to have to involve people of good will on both sides, and help in finding the realization that they can live better in cooperation than they can at war. There's a lot of hard feelings, bad will, and anger, on both sides, that needs to be dealt with. I'm not sure the Trumpian approach is going to further "peace in the Middle East". I'm also not sure if he knows that, or he's arrogant enough to think that, because HE wants it, it will happen.
 
It's just that, if Trump is really interested in helping negotiate a Middle East peace agreement, like he said he was, this probably isn't a real helpful way to start. We just took a side on one of the biggest issues of the situation.
We did. We always have. For as long as this modern state of Isreal has exsisted we have been more or less on their side than on any other side.

No one involved in the region even remotely thinks of the US as an unbiased middle man.

This article, an opinion piece from a right leaning source, talks about the sad reason why this move doesn’t matter that much. http://thehill.com/opinion/internat...e-probably-wont-change-anything-heres-the-sad

If even the right is able to say we are not doing much for peace in the Middle East ANYHOW... that’s really something. We didn’t lose some huge ground we were making for peace because we were not making much of an effort anyhow.

Nations treat Jersusalem as the functional capital anyhow, and Jared Kusher’s grand plan for peace in the Middle East is not something that anyone is hanging their hat on at all. This move should be a greater loss in that effort, but it’s pretty much non-existent... so it is actually sad that there really isn’t much lost by this move because the US wasn’t making a grand effort towards compromise anyhow.

It does suggest that the move should have been a part of a peace deal between the two sides. It would have been really great to have it moved as a symbol of unity.
lIf he truly wanted peace, he would have left things as they were, just like the last few presidents have.
Keeping things as they are... this does not mean peace in any the Middle East. It’s worse than ever.

Enacting laws we don’t mean to carry out is silly. The previous presidents could have solved this 1995 law they have to take action postpone every 6 months, but instead they kicked the can down the road.

This is what happens when you delay it for someone else to deal with a problem. Eventually, someone deals with it. And this should not be a surprise to anyone. The GOP (numerous candidates) have been campaigning on the stance they would move the embassy for a long time. The democrats should have expected that if they kept kicking this can down the road, eventually the GOP might do what they say they will do and pick up the can and move the embassy without a peace agreement.

I do not like or support Trump, but I will not go so far as to ascribe to him based on this act alone that he is someone who does not want peace in the Middle East. I believe that is too simplistic of a way to look at it, and overlooks how much evangelical voters ***wanted*** this... and all the political gain amoung evangelical voters that he gets for this move.

I very much believe Trump did this because of US politics and to try to hang on to evangelical voters because of the mess with Russia and Roy Moore, not because he has a moral principle for supporting Israel

I think the US has been foolish by enacting laws they then don’t put into action... what even is that? Both parties in favor of a law they did not want actually carried out.

It is odd to me that no one that I have read against this move is asking for the repeal of the 1995 act to move the embassy. If this is truly a bad move then I believe the Democrats could file a bill to revoke that law to go on record this law should not be carried out short of a peace deal. But they too have no backbone. Some of the same senators who voted for this are now saying the very law they passed should be be carried out and get do not have the courage of their convictions to seek to revoke the law and pass a better one.

It is my opinion that there is no consisteny, no spine, no backbone in US politicians, and that is the real problem. They play politics over principles.
 
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I very much believe Trump did this because of US politics and to try to hang on to evangelical voters because of the mess with Russia and Roy Moore, not because he has a moral principle for supporting Israel
I think that's exactly right. I think it's possible Trump went into this thinking he, as the consummate deal maker, could get peace the middle east where others have failed. The ego boost from that would be good. And, i honestly think he likes approval from Netanyahu. But, there are reasons for his move that are closer to home.

My own opinion, and I don't claim to be a great negotiator, is that the idea that's most likely to work is talking both sides into sharing Jerusalem and they can both have it as a capital. Personally, I think both claims are equally valid. From there, it's like 2 kids with a toy, "Either you play with it together and play nice, or no one gets it." And it goesof back to the original plan it being an international city.

@Justmehere , you're right, we've always tended to side with Israel. While trying to maintain some kind of pretence of being unbiased. That's probably how we ended up with the law/waiver situation. But, the rare times any progress had been made were times when we had someone on the Arab side we could and would work with, and we actually did that. It didn't look like that's going to happen. And I suspect the Saudi's, and the Jordanians, and maybe others, are wondering what just happened because they thought we were allies but now maybe we're not and what are they to make of that?
 
I too think that Trump’s decision to move the embassy at this time was for his base and financial backers. I also believe that he hates Muslims and doesn’t care how badly his decision was going to affect them or the region. This wasn’t a move that would bring peace, it was a move to incite anger and frustration. IMO!!!!!
 
At least they knew the ramification of moving the embassy would do. Exactly what’s happening now.

Clinton, Bush jr., and Obama all agreed that the capitol was in Jerusalem. They each said it, I saw it this morning. All three of them supported this.

I have no opinion because I do not know the workings of their minds or how the government works.

I know that Dems and Repubs are so similar now in their commitments to the corporations and making big money and I am certainly no mind reader. I cannot speculate what went on in each of their minds. Time will reveal the outcomes. I just do not know what to think at this point.
 
@Rain Yes all 3 previous presidents all agreed that Jerusalem is the capitol. That’s not the issue. They could have MOVED the embassy to Jerusalem, but they knew that by doing that, it would cause the shit storm, and violence that we are seeing now. Trump is the one that made the speech that it’s now time to move the embassy, but FAILED to include in his speech that Jerusalem would also be the capitol for the Palestinians and that they too would be included.

By doing it the way he did he snubbed the Palestinians and excluded them. The have always believed that Jerusalem was their capitol. It’s screwed up, and you have 2 different religions fighting for the same thing. They are so far apart in their beliefs that honestly I don’t know how you could get them to agree on much of anything. But I do know that doing something and excluding one, isn’t the right way to do anything....
 
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