Sufferer Childhood abuse, emdr, difficulty with anxiety and medications

[lowweb]

Many years ago I was diagnosed with PTSD and went through about 3 years of very intense therapy processing the childhood sexual abuse from a very young age until adulthood. Went through several more years of therapy dealing with more recent events and how the abuse was affecting my life today. I have been out of therapy completely for 10 years, until last spring. The earlier therapy saved my life. I have no doubt of that. I was stable after the intense 3 years of therapy, but still had depression and anxiety. I went through 2 tapers off of benzos (ativan) because I developed interdose withdrawal and tolerance. The 2nd taper I switched to valium to taper and from the first cut it was hell. It took me 4 months to get off each time but I was taking 4 times as much ativan as what I was the 2nd time and when I crossed over to valium I didn't have a problem until my first cut. I started having multiple panic attacks a day, not to mention the anxiety. Previously I had PAs but rarely, one or two a year. When I was finally off my anxiety didn't improve. The first time with each cut of ativan I felt better. Still had anxiety after I was off but it wasn't anywhere near as bad.

My personal belief is that because I pushed myself all my life to do things that caused me anxiety....that eventually, that was at least part of the reason I developed fibromyalgia. Over the years I have bought many books on anxiety, DVDs, downloads etc. Not much help from any of them. However, I had a book written by the woman who discovered EMDR and it had been suggested to me before. I decided I wanted to try it. The therapist I am seeing is quite busy/popular as it took 6 weeks to get an appointment with him. He took my basic history and even knew the woman who had worked with me for so many years. He said that he did not think I had completely processed all the sexual abuse from childhood. About the 4th session was the first EMDR. He would not allow me to go back to childhood (every topic seems to lead back there). He said we would put it in a box and deal with it later. I've had 10 sessions. The first 2 were 2 weeks a part and I went into a fibromyalgia flare for most of the 2 weeks each time. Had about 2 good days out of 14. And except for 2 days at the end of the first 14 days did I manage not to take any Xanax or sometimes ativan. But I have taken one or the other every day since and that was back in April. And that was the main reason for me seeking therapy again! The flare included a big jump in anxiety. One reason I wanted EMDR was because my anxiety had been increasing and while I had managed to take Xanax or ativan as needed for 12 years and been fine taking it that way. I had been increasing my intake due to the increased anxiety (no reason I know for that except possibly as fibro progressed, anxiety did too). Out of 10 sessions he finally allowed me to go back to childhood 3 times. Two brought a sense of relief but still triggered the fibro flare. One I actually didn't have a flare afterward. The only time I didn't out of the 10 sessions.

The therapist went on vacation, then had a death in the family. So I didn't see him for about 6 weeks. When I did he informed me he thought I had processed the childhood abuse after all and we needed to work on (I'm not sure if he meant more reason events in my life or just teaching me how to calm my anxiety). He made the comment that I really didn't know but what a lot of my abuse was true as I had dissociated it all. I had told him at the beginning that I believed what the previous therapist told me, which was she could not say whether any one particular memory was true, but she did know from the emotional pain I was in and the memories that came out that a lot had happened to me, but a few memories might have been bad dreams etc. Then he comes back to me like maybe a lot of it wasn't true....because like many survivors where in the h*ll am I supposed to get the proof. I have exactly one person who backed me up. A niece said my father had molested her too.

I am sorry I seem to be writing a book here. After the EMDR sessions threw me into flares several people who have fibro or cfs suggested a stop the EMDR. But I was determined to push on. What I actually thought was that the flares were triggered (impossible to separate the increase anxiety and physical symptoms of flares) because of frustration in not being allowed to go back to my childhood...I believed that was what I needed to do.

I have an appointment again next week and I have no idea how to handle it, except to tell him how I feel and thought/think about it and give him a brief log of my days for the last 2 weeks.

Anyone have a similiar experience?

 

[Skywatcher]

If a therapist were to suggest my childhood experience was not true, I would be very upset. My therapist says that memory is malleable and there is no way to truly know. This is why we treat the disturbance. She also says that she has no problem in believing me. She won’t let me do emdr on my biggest trauma, yet. She is very good at breaking this stuff up and not allowing me to connect too much (to avoid sending me out in a panicked state).

 

[lowweb]

Thanks for replying Skywatcher. He said he could tell by the way I responded the 3 times we went back to childhood that I had already processed those memories years ago after all. Not sure what he expected me to do. With one time I cried pretty hard, with another one just a few tears and the last one I didn't cry at all. But it was about memories I'd always had. Nothing I had dissociated. And I have no idea why he would throw in that I didn't know if a lot of the memories were true or not. That really got me. It hurt and I don't know if I have much trust left moving forward.

 

[Skywatcher]

Thanks for replying Skywatcher. He said he could tell by the way I responded the 3 times we went back t...

Yeah. I would bring that up in your next session. Maybe you misunderstood what he was saying? I am currently dealing with body sensations in my emdr stuff. I was disassociated originally and now I get the joy of feeling it as I process. She said that’s why they check in on our body sensations. She says eventually I won’t feel them at all with the memory. I truly hope that is the case. Is that what happened with yours?

 

[Justmehere]

Trying to get off benzodiazepines by taking other benzos... seems really counterintuitive to me. I’d suggest a second opinion on the meds. There are a number of other meds that can be used for anxiety to help with the withdrawals, and don’t have the same risks of dependence that you have experienced. Otherwise, I think you’ll be chasing it for a bit.

You have described a lot of work to sort out meds or process trauma, but you don’t describe any work done to manage anxiety when it comes. Have you done much on that?

Meds or no meds, EMDR or no EMDR, a very critical part of recovery is building up a robust toolbox to handle symptoms.

A normal part of EMDR (and just about every type of trauma therapy out there) is for symptoms to spike. It is also common when working through dissociation.

It’s is SO good you have taken a log about how you have been feeling, and I would for sure share that with the therapist. If he is worth his popularity, he will hopefully pause, and work on that toolbox a bit, and figure out a good solid path forward to work through the trauma.

 

[lowweb]

Yeah. I would bring that up in your next session. Maybe you misunderstood what he was saying? I am currently dealing with body sensations in my emdr stuff. I was disassociated originally and now I get the joy of feeling it as I process. She said that’s why they check in on our body sensations. She says eventually I won’t feel them at all with the memory. I truly hope that is the case. Is that what happened with yours?

I'm thinking about how much I felt years ago. I know I felt some body sensations. But there were times I was well aware it was me and my voice and body, but I was somewhat still removed from it. Yet I did have body memories. And the most intense year of therapy I had cramping similar to menstrual cramping and low back pain almost constantly that year. With EMDR most of my body sensations have involved chest and stomach. He keeps asking and then I find something else that hurts or something and he says that is good that the pain is moving around, but it is really more like if you look for more pain you can find it.

 

[lowweb]

Trying to get off benzodiazepines by taking other benzos... seems really counterintuitive to me. I’d suggest a second opinion on the meds. There are a number of other meds that can be used for anxiety to help with the withdrawals, and don’t have the same risks of dependence that you have experienced. Otherwise, I think you’ll be chasing it for a bit.

You have described a lot of work to sort out meds or process trauma, but you don’t describe any work done to manage anxiety when it comes. Have you done much on that?

Meds or no meds, EMDR or no EMDR, a very critical part of recovery is building up a robust toolbox to handle symptoms.

A normal part of EMDR (and just about every type of trauma therapy out there) is for symptoms to spike. It is also common when working through dissociation.

It’s is SO good you have taken a log about how you have been feeling, and I would for sure share that with the therapist. If he is worth his popularity, he will hopefully pause, and work on that toolbox a bit, and figure out a good solid path forward to work through the trauma.

Actually I was trying to cut back on benzos and that and my increased anxiety without any known reason for it were the reasons I started to see this therapist. And instead, my anxiety ramped up so much, as I said I've been taking them every day. Between fibromyalgia and depression over the years I've taken almost every antidepressant around. Many I've had such severe side effects that I've had to get off of them or else they never helped.

You are right about never having done much work on my anxiety with a therapist. As I mentioned many books, cds, downloads etc....is what I have mostly done. This therapist has given me several CDs. One reason I think there is still some of the childhood stuff that I haven't processed is because about the only thing I can handle is the beginning of most of them that consist of deep breathing. Body scanning and imaginative meditation (can't think what else to call it) cause anger, even rage. Told him at one point and he said don't listen to those parts of the cds then. This is long-standing with me, as far as anger/rage with the meditations. This therapist has taught me a couple of breathing techniques that help my anxiety to some degree. I'd never found any that helped before.

Thank you for your response. You have made me think and consider several things.

 

[Abstract]

Hi and welcome.

It sounds like you have worked really hard and consciously on recovery over a long time. It also sounds like you are possibly somatising the trauma to at least some extent. You obviously feel the past hasn't been fully put to rest and I do think we are the best judges when it comes to these things.

A few questions for you. Did he check in to see what self care and coping skills you had before he started. Does he specialise in trauma and have solid experience dealing with those with complex trauma. Have you told him you feel the past is not in the past and you want to work on it. Does he know about the benzo issue.

Personal take on this: if someone said they didn't believe in what happened to me it would really mess with me. Yes, we know the details can get foggy but that beside the point. I also think that someone who has deal with a lot of trauma would hopefully know that how someone appears to be affected by it isn't always the case. Complex trauma can mean people develop unusual ways of masking it. Not saying thats the case here for you as that is for you to decide. Just that it happens and especially with those who do more dissociation.

 

[Justmehere]

I can relate about the meds and side effects. Wow, some of them can be a doozy. I was on benzos for a time, then antidepressants, then a blood pressure med for anxiety, and I eventually found vistaril (antihistamine often used for anxiety) and trilophan helped... and eventually got to a point where I only take the vistaril every now and then.

This therapist has given me several CDs. One reason I think there is still some of the childhood stuff that I haven't processed is because about the only thing I can handle is the beginning of most of them that consist of deep breathing. Body scanning and imaginative meditation (can't think what else to call it) cause anger, even rage.

Meditation works for some people but for other people it gives space for all the emotions to flood in like a tidal wave. I can’t do it. CDs just let too much of the underlying emotions bubble up at once for me. I fall apart. the closest I can get is exercise that requires a lot of attention like racket ball or swimming - gives me a focus and let’s me be really in be my body.

I’d suggest looking into more skills that are more active, along the lines of mindfulness, active grounding (holding ice can stop panic in its tracks for me), containment (being able to “put away” the work), and trauma focused CBT techniques like challenging distorted thoughts (we all have them.)

For me, I also had to learn to not panic about the fear and anxiety, but to begin to see it as a body sensation to be curious about. That allowed me to sit with more of it - and not run from it - which actually sometimes allows it to go through a wave of getting worse, but then a lot better, without doing anything at all. It takes time to get to that point though, and isn’t for everyone. But anyone with dissociation trying to jump into any trauma work, especially EMDR, should have a number of solid ground skills that thy are able to do and practice when things are going better, so they can easily use them when times get rough.

When I first started to work on my own toolbox, it honestly felt stupid... my anxiety was HUGE... so I jumped into a DBT group and learning skills throughout my week with other people really helped a lot.

It may also be helpful to keep a log of possible anticipating events. It may seem like the anxiety is hitting for no reason at all, but perhaps there are some patterns of experiences around you, times of day, or thoughts you are having that might be connected to the anxiety.

All stuff a well rounded trauma therapist should be able to work with you on as you work through this together.

You have a lot of insight already and a very proactive attitude. It’s a tough battle. Keep up the good work.

 

[Freida]

I have the fibro/ptsd combo also and I've been doing EMDR for about 16 months. Here's what Ive found so far...
The VA and my civilian doctor have both said they are co-concurrent diagnosis. The fibro was caused either by the events that caused my ptsd or by living with ptsd and all its effects. It makes sense -- ptsd keeps your nerves firing constantly, and fibro is from over stimulated nerves.

My EMDR T is fairly confident that as we process all the crapola in my brain my fibro symptoms will lessen, and they have gone down dramatically. But I do get a flare up after sessions if I don't take care of myself. I usually have to block out the 24 hours after EMDR to sleep or relax. I tried to just keep going and worked a full time job and such...yea... no. If I don't give myself the time off then the flare up will get worse and worse. But even "worse" is better than it used to be. I've gone from 4 and 5 days in bed to maybe 1. So I stick with it even though it is hard....

 

[lowweb]

Hi and welcome.

It also sounds like you are possibly somatising the trauma to at least some extent. You obviously feel the past hasn't been fully put to rest and I do think we are the best judges when it comes to these things.

It is possible that his own personal loss of a family member caused him to not be on top of his game. But his comment that he no longer believed childhood trauma was my problem because of the way I reacted and then to say I didn't even know if a lot of it really happened. That really hurt and I've lost a lot of trust in him. He knows I originally dissociated all the abuse. He claims to deal with a lot of clients who have been sexually abused and he is used to dealing with dissociation. I wonder about that because years back I had a heck of a time staying out of denial. Ever so often I would decide for some reason I didn't understand I was just a really sick person who made this stuff up. Of course I always paid for that. Every time my emotional pain would go off the scale until I got out of denial. I think I'm going to mention how hard it was to stay out of denial for a long time to him. Along with my hurt and anger over what he said.

I was also angry because my FIL had just passed away. I was in a fibro flare from all the stress of that and then he puts that on me when I felt like I needed every ounce of energy I had to come out of the flare and here I was going to have to think a lot about how I felt, what he said etc and then face him and have a talk with him that might end up with him not seeing me anymore.

 

[lowweb]

I can relate about the meds and side effects. Wow, some of them can be a doozy. I was on benzos for a time, then antidepressants, then a blood pressure med for anxiety, and I eventually found vistaril (antihistamine often used for anxiety) and trilophan helped... and eventually got to a point where I only take the vistaril every now and then.

I just recently heard about an antihistamine that was being given for anxiety. I will check into it and the other med you mentioned I will look up. I actually have a primary care doctor who is quite willing to listen when I mention I med I've not tried.

Meditation works for some people but for other people it gives space for all the emotions to flood in like a tidal wave. I can’t do it. CDs just let too much of the underlying emotions bubble up at once for me. I fall apart. the closest I can get is exercise that requires a lot of attention like racket ball or swimming - gives me a focus and let’s me be really in be my body.
I am glad I'm not the only one who has this problem. I've read that some people have problems with it, but most people I've had contact with carry on about how great meditation works for them.

I’d suggest looking into more skills that are more active, along the lines of mindfulness, active grounding (holding ice can stop panic in its tracks for me), containment (being able to “put away” the work), and trauma focused CBT techniques like challenging distorted thoughts (we all have them.)
Burn's book about using CBT for depression, but I never seemed to help with anxiety. I think I will ask my therapist about trauma focused CBT techniques....of course if he truly believes the childhood abuse isn't my problem, that won't do any good. I am beginning to feel like I can trust myself to know that he is wrong. I couldn't at first.

It may also be helpful to keep a log of possible anticipating events. It may seem like the anxiety is hitting for no reason at all, but perhaps there are some patterns of experiences around you, times of day, or thoughts you are having that might be connected to the anxiety.

I do know there are certain times of day where my anxiety is high. And also I know if I reach a certain amount of stress that I will have a panic attack. .

I have the fibro/ptsd combo also and I've been doing EMDR for about 16 months. Here's what Ive found so far...
The VA and my civilian doctor have both said they are co-concurrent diagnosis. The fibro was caused either by the events that caused my ptsd or by living with ptsd and all its effects. It makes sense -- ptsd keeps your nerves firing constantly, and fibro is from over stimulated nerves.

I have never had any medical/mental professional tell me they agreed with me on this. But to me it only makes sense. And I've found that almost everyone on fibro forums I've been on have anxiety too. And most, admit they had long standing anxiety before they developed fibro.