What is a "friend"?

[bellbird]

Hello everyone,
Would appreciate your thoughts on this.

What are the defining/important features of a "friend" / "friendship", for you?


I'm having a bit of difficulty with this concept at the moment and being able to answer those questions for myself.

Recently, I had spinal fusion surgery and was in hospital for just over 2 weeks (about 2-3 times longer than anticipated due to a number of complications).
During that time, I had just one friend come and visit, despite 5 others who I would have even considered "close friends" knowing that I was in hospital, telling me they would visit, and then ghosting. A few I've heard from randomly since, and some not.

I think it was @blackemerald1 who suggested in my surgery thread that I reconsider what friendship actually means to me, so I thought it might be helpful to put the question to the group to see if there's any consensus :)

Thanks!

 

[Wendell_R]

I think of a few key ideas:
-Trust. This can be a hard one for all of us with PTSD. Do we feel comfortable sharing with each other? If things go off the rails a bit, can we forgive and trust each other again?
-Balance. Is the friendship mutual? Is the contact back and forth not one way?
-Joy. What provides a little spark?

For me, trust is the hardest of these three. What's also hard is the maelstrom of intense thoughts in my head. The idea of sharing these with someone is hard to fathom. But if I don't share them, it feels like I'm leaving out a huge part of my (internal) life. I haven't figured out that one yet! I'll settle for a little progress on "trust".

 

[EveHarrington]

On the one hand, some people are totally weird about hospitals and sickness.

On the other hand, 5 out of 6 people in society don’t have this issue. (I don’t believe.)

Is it possible that these friends were more of acquaintances?

When I was in the hospital, my boyfriend, then just a friend, was there every chance he got. At this point he didn’t even realize he liked me. We just hung out a lot. I had another friend who kept calling but was always given to the other person named “Eve” (annoying), and I didn’t find out about it until after I left the hospital. I consider both of these people to be friends, true friends.

What do I look for in a friend?

Honesty.
Loyalty.
There in the good times, as well as the bad.
There’s more.....

The people who truly care, SHOW UP and make an effort to have you in their life. In good times. In bad times.

Sometimes I wonder why my sister likes me, but she really makes an effort to have me in her life. (I make an effort to keep her in mine, too.)

 

[bellbird]

On the one hand, some people are totally weird about hospitals and sickness.

3 of them visited me voluntarily, on multiple occasions, while I was mental health inpatient last year. The other two.. well I suppose that is a possibility, but I've never had a reason to think they feel that way.

Is it possible that these friends were more of acquaintances?

One was the person who came with me when I left my abuser the second time (the successful time) and got my things from his house.

One I have known closely for almost decade, and we even wrote each other physical letters for an extended period where we lived on either sides of the world.

One of them offered me their spare bedroom to stay in when my flatmates wouldn't allow me to come back home after my mental health inpatient discharge.

One was the first person I spoke to after I disclosed my SA to my GP for the first time.

And one has offered in the past that I move into her house as a housemate and live there.


***these aren't the extent of our friendships, I'm just using these as examples to illustrate that we were much more than acquaintances.

--
Ok, we are building a good list here; thank you both for your input so far :)

I think also, the setting and observing of healthy boundaries from both sides, is an important feature.
This is something that has been an issue with one of those friends in particular.

I've faced some ..consequences, because she has set boundaries that I have acted within and that she has then realised that she couldn't actually cope with, but hasn't taken accountability for herself.

That throws so many of the qualities you've mentioned, up in the air; trust, loyalty, balance, joy, honesty...

I suppose it makes sense when I write it out like this, why that friendship has broken down recently.

--
I should also note, that these aren't all friends from a single friend-circle.
It does make me worry that there's one clear denominator here, and maybe it's just me who is the problem.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I struggle with this too.

In my experience when I was in the hospital I had more people visit me that I considered acquaintances. It was actually an opportunity to get to know other people more in depth. Bizarrely enough.

For me a friend is someone who opens up. I have very little friends who actively share their life/their worries with me. Most of them are fine listening to my stuff but then when I ask them what´s going on, they dodge the question.

Different things are important in friendship to different people. But you question their friendship at this time so I think "visiting you in the hospital" is something that is important to you in friendship.

Maybe just ask them what happened and express you would have liked to see them there?

 

[Rani G2]

What are the defining/important features of a "friend" / "friendship", for you?

@bellbird trying to grasp the concept of friendship. Never had a friend, still learning what it means to be in a friendship, be connected and so on.Its hard for me because there is this lack of empathy I struggle with, and not knowing how to react to peoples struggles.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think not all friendships are created equal. And that is normal.

I think by what you've said @bellbird , some of those friends really seemed like they would have come through for you, or did. But not during your last hospitalization.

As an aside, I never really understood the, "Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; do not walk behind me, I may not lead; walk beside me and be my friend" saying. Except now I think in front is incapable of seeing the needs or state (or otherwise) of someone behind, and not sharing, and behind is aware of those needs but again never connected enough to engage or be there or be selfless enough (perhaps the hospital situation). Beside is many of the examples when your friends were there. But I don't think a friend would be happy to hear you felt alone or abandoned, so you can talk it out, whereas a weaker friendship it would not really matter to them or be a superficial discussion.

So maybe it's not the friendship, but how able to be in sync or attuned or engaged people are, and that can vary, and vary at times. And if not really that deep or that authentic not really a hallmark of better friendship. But if a better one you can talk about it, if you hurt each other, even inadvertently.

It's funny, I decided this year with Christmas, my bday, New Years, for this year (2019) to invest in only those who acknowledged me versus those who did not reach out to me just to even say Happy Birthday, for example. The vast majority who did reach out have been abusive, or just want to have sex. So I thought, I guess this is what is my lot. Until I realized it's fractured logic to 'have' to develop my life more deeply with the same choices. Idk. I would never have a funeral I don't think any of them could care less, really. Not really. Except one I've known 20 years, and another few I've lost touch with. I mean superficially they act like it- but I think it's not too genuine. Yet I get along with most and most consider I have a lot of 'friends'.

 

[Changing4Best]

Someone you enjoy being with, going places with, who you can trust to keep your confidences and who will make an effort to be there for you when you need them. That last is contingent upon you letting them know you need them, and their availability at that time too. If they cannot come visit you in the H. could they at least have called you? Or sent a card?? Maybe they prayed for you at least?? Talk to them and see, before making the final decisions on whether they are true friends or not.

 

[bellbird]

Different things are important in friendship to different people.

Hmm. Good point.

But you question their friendship at this time so I think "visiting you in the hospital" is something that is important to you in friendship.

I think that if they would have said "sorry, bellbird. I won't be able to visit you in hospital like I'd intended to, due to xyz", I wouldn't feel so bad.

So perhaps my issue is with communication, and with feeling valued in a friendship.
Is that too self centred? My inner compass is way out of whack when it comes to these things.

But damn, this thread is already giving me a lot of thinking to do. Good, though.

Never had a friend, still learning what it means to be in a friendship, be connected and so on

Hope you'll find some benefit from this thread too, then, @PURUSHA :hug:

I think not all friendships are created equal. And that is normal

True true.

It's funny, I decided this year with Christmas, my bday, New Years, for this year (2019) to invest in only those who acknowledged me versus those who did not reach out to me just to even say Happy Birthday, for example.

Ooh, yes. Saying happy birthday seems to be a big thing for me in a friendship, too.

If they cannot come visit you in the H. could they at least have called you? Or sent a card?? Maybe they prayed for you at least?? Talk to them and see, before making the final decisions on whether they are true friends or not.

Yes, you are right. I needn't rush this.


--
I'm really starting to see that perhaps my low self-esteem (that was massively shattered during my abusive relationship) is probably having a big influence on how I view the state of my friendships.

But then, I wonder if I did have very healthy self-esteem levels, if these aspects in my friendships would still frustrate/upset me?
-I'm also wary of thinking "Oh I just have low self-esteem" to make excuses for being treated certain (unfavourable?) ways by others.

Thanks everyone for your input with this, this has become a really thought provoking discussion/sharing of ideas.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

So perhaps my issue is with communication, and with feeling valued in a friendship.
Is that too self centred? My inner compass is way out of whack when it comes to these things

That´s an important sentence, I think in a real friendship all parties feel valued... :) So, no it´s not self-centered to communicate what you need. In fact it will make it easier for other people to know what matters to you in a friendship.

Self-esteem definitely helps in these things (because speaking up about your own needs is easier then). But other people of course also have their own thoughts and motives :) That´s why communication is good.

 

[ladee]

Interesting conversation. One that is helping me also. I just recently had to put some space between myself and a 'friend' of over 35 years. It took me a long time to start backing up.

But I look at my other friends, and I do have a few very close friends, and what the differences were with her as opposed to my other friends. The trust had been abused. Her lack of ability to have a conversation about what the problems were. And me looking back over the years and seeing she really isn't any different than she's always been. What changed was me.

I have diverse friends. But as I set and think of them as individuals, I know each of them would come to the hospital if I was there, if they knew. Some I would not contact. But some I would. And if they had the courtesy to let me know they wouldn't be there, I would understand.

Trust and communication are vital to me personally. Give and take. Honesty. And to feel valued.

And thru this long life of mine, I have also come to value quality as opposed to quantity. Sounds like the ones that did visit you were there for the right reasons. Maybe it's good the others didn't show up. I bet you are like me in the sense that you would rather someone visit because they wanted to see me, as opposed to showing up out of obligation. I think that would upset me more than them not showing up.

And yes, sometimes our own self-esteem does play a part, but it shows self-esteem that you are asking these questions and being open-minded to possibilities. Some people are in our lives for a short while to teach us something. It's our ability to 'let go' when the time comes that shows our own self-worth.

And sometimes, like in the case of you having this major surgery and complications, you DID need support and loving people around you. And sounds like the people who did show up are the real friends.

We can have 'layers' of friends. Some very close, some causal that will stand the test of time, others will go by the wayside. I am glad you did have someone that was present for you. Cherish them, and let the ones that didn't figure it out.

 

[EveHarrington]

we were much more than acquaintances

Yes, these were/are indeed friends!

It’s important to look at the whole picture and not make a decision based on one incident.

Someone who takes you in when you’re homeless? Indeed a friend!

Are you able to look at the whole picture with these friendships?

As an aside, I never really understood the, "Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; do not walk behind me, I may not lead; walk beside me and be my friend" saying.

I’m an independent, I will not follow, and I hate it when people follow me. So, this is why I interpret this a bit differently. A friend won’t want me to follow; a friend won’t want to follow me. A friend is an equal (overall).

So perhaps my issue is with communication, and with feeling valued in a friendship.
Is that too self centred? My inner compass is way out of whack when it comes to these things.

No, it’s not too self centered.

Are you someone who prefers lots of friends, or just a few close friends?