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News Doctor-Assisted Death For Those Living With Ptsd

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I think it'd be ideal if euthanasia was free of cost but still strictly regulated. However, I remain unconvinced euthanasia for ptsd sufferers is ok.

With respect to the suggestion that people who want to die should pay to make it happen legally probably most already have paid via taxation?

Are the drugs used in euthanasia really that expensive & going up in price? If so why? I thought the drugs used were simply extra large doses of otherwise quite easily acquired drugs. But still quite small amounts... like no need for an shopping trolley. Anyway, I'm sure one doesn't require huge amounts & it's only a one time dose.

Maybe the institutions that do it can purchase it in bulk & get a discount..
 
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Are the drugs used in euthanasia really that expensive & going up in price? If so why? I thought the drugs used were simply extra large doses of otherwise quite easily acquired drugs. But still quite small amounts... like no need for an shopping trolley. Anyway, I'm sure one doesn't require huge amounts & it's only a one time dose.

This is for the America and this has o do with the cost of the drugs needed for euthanasia:
How Much Do Physician-Assisted Suicide Drugs Cost?
DEATH WITH DIGNITY
Drug Company Jacks Up Cost Of Aid-In-Dying Medication
 
Did I misunderstand?

No Friday you didn't:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/als-bc-man-medically-assisted-death-1.5244731
B.C. man receives assisted death after funding cut for in-home care - Grandin Media

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Far as judging people where they're "not", or "why", I keep it way more simple than that, because that's all I'm capable of, I think "But for the grace of God there go I". And mean it. (And far as ptsd goes, one day it may very well be anyone's reality.)

I like what was said once, that when calling someone ~'a lazy as* who won't get out and find a job, just remember how you feel when your tv remote or garage door opener doesn't work, and having to get off the couch, & how you feel about that (& that is nothing in comparison)'.
 
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@flowerapple - the reasons the drugs became expensive to the extreme seem fairly obvious and it's got nothing to do with their intended purpose or the actual cost of manufacturer etc. Rather base human profit driven motives?

1. Big pharma - price gouging.... It had to happen but it's interesting to note the prices of these drugs were very affordable before they embarked on this deplorable behaviour,

2. Companies in the EU using the USA death penalty as an easy excuse for price gouging (bc let's face it... putting the price up isn't going to stop authorities from buying it). But it may exclude significant numbers of people who need it for end of life purposes relating to medical conditions.

3. Affordable alternatives are available and they are being developed so the price gouging will not remain relevant,
 
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the reasons the drugs became expensive to the extreme seem fairly obvious and it's got nothing to do with their intended purpose or the actual cost of manufacturer etc. Rather base human profit driven motives?

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. The cost of the drugs are increasing, not due to the purpose of the drug or the cost to the manufacturer, but because the companies see a market that can be exploited for profit. Because it's since it's been legalized that the companies began increasing the prices.
 
I think cost may be a red herring, since the cost is (a) born by the estate, not the individual, given the circumstances; and (b) because the alternative is most often the cost of ongoing palliative care, which is not to be sneezed at...

For a large portion of people who are in have the necessary supports in place to meet legal requirements, cost I think tends to be down the list of major considerations. Healthcare, for the terminally ill, is really expensive.
 
I read somewhere a while ago that the cost was due to the drug being used was the only one legally sanctioned for assisted suicide and being a barbiturate, it's not being manufactured in large quantities any longer, having been replaced by safer drugs ages ago.
I could be wrong though.
 
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I think that's a very black-and-white way to look at it. I don't think we should just assume that because someone is struggling to pay bills, or haven't planned far ahead in terms of saving, etc., then it's because they weren't independent, or squandered their money away in their youth, or any other assumption. It's not a fair conclusion to draw from that. There are many factors that can cause a person to be in those same positions where they are struggling to make it in life monetarily, that don't have to do with irresponsible spending. And it's not merely one factor that can affect that as well, but a multitude of factors each with a differing magnitude.

For example, many people aren't as fortunate as others to have a great start in life, whether it be that they were born into an impoverished, or abusive, or any other type of disadvantaged household, or they somewhere along the way developed some chronic illness. Therefore for them to make it anywhere, they would have to work harder than the person who was born in an advantageous household to get the same position. So it wouldn't be so much of an argument to say that the disadvantaged person didn't get the position because they weren't determined enough, as there wasn't a level playing field to begin with.

Also, many things happen throughout life, where even the most responsible people on the planet could end up falling flat on their faces, and you can't blame people for those things happening to them. When life throws you a curveball, like a natural disaster, or sudden illness, etc., many people who have been dutifully saving for the future end up having to go and spend that savings, often spending all of it. This is even worse for those who have families, or sick family members to which they have a responsibility to, whether imagined or real. There are many stories out there of people who have money saved, or have insurance plans taken out for those unexpected events that could occur, but during a natural disaster their contracts and other documents get lost or damaged, so when it comes time to claim for their damages, they can't because they don't have the proof for it. So they end up in debt, broke and penniless.

Also people have different ways to deal with situations, even when they are in the situation. And not because one person was able to handle it better and the other didn't, it doesn't mean that the other person didn't work hard enough. It's almost the same kind of explanation for why one person develops ptsd and the doesn't after experiencing trauma.

I'm not saying this is always the case, as you do have some who are like as you described that waste their money instead of saving it.

Also, I do not agree with this opinion. Life is unpredictable and we live in an unpredictable world, so it is impossible to predict an event in the future with certainty. Plus, normally people don't sit and think "you know someday in the future I might want to end my life early and be euthanized, so I better start saving now." So you can't say that if it's something they believe in then they should plan for it monetarily. Also, one can feel that way, but still would like to not die, so the mere act of saving for that possibility would work against them trying to not die as well.

If you were talking about death in general, I can understand that though. There are life insurance policies that people can take out, but I don't see how that would work to pay for the procedure itself, as that it something that comes after. Also, taking out an insurance policy would be something beneficial, but not everyone can afford to pay the monthly fees associated with them, or they would be able to pay for it, but it means leaving something else unpaid. Plus the cost of the drugs needed for euthanasia are quite costly and continues to increase, so those who live in countries where they are expected to pay for themselves would have an extra burden to pay, especially if doing so could cause debt for their remaining family, so then they wouldn't be able to pay for it.

@flowerapple I was adopted, had to leave home at 17-they were happy when I left....had no car, no drivers license, no money and unable to apply for a permit till I was 19 years old. I was not considered controlled w my epilepsy, had to deal with early age incest from brother, multiple seizure types left me unable to process info and function in high school (and kids aren't running to be your friend when you are falling down seizing-I lost all my friends in high school-and all my freedom), and no family emotional support at all. Medical trauma with seizure disorder took me from a straight A student with friends to an F student-and was tracked with the dumbies and no longer college bound....there was no special education back then-no IEPs.

At 16-I was attacked in a museum in Washington D.C, by a crazy man and came home to a mother that told me to forget it ever happened (this was after the detectives came and I did the mugbook thing) and had to go to a line-up, and my mother couldn't even look at me because she said I must have asked for it..... ; no point in crying-learned my lesson she said, and a father who stayed drunk at the bar and hardly ever spoke to me..... But in high school, because of seizures, I stayed doped up for a year and a half, angry, depressed, isolated in my room at home and out of sight out of trouble .... (and back in those days there was no technology-no TV in my room, no cell phone w apps, no computers to "talk to people in my situation" and a 10 min. max shower once a week-or the hot water was turned off....two squares of toilet paper allowed per potty trip(and my parents weren't poor- I lived in a house, their house, not our home. We lived in the country, my mother did not work, and she hated driving me around....I had to be seizure free 3 years to get a permit. High school sucked, didn't bring kids home to drunk parents, lousy high school grades from being sick, couldn't read any novels or small print for 1.5 years of high school-constant blurred vision, did the runaway thing regularly, suicide attempt at 17 (CPTSD) and I spent my life trying to be good enough to be loved and want to belong (that's an adoptive child thing, an attachment thing, and an abused kid thing-I'm over 60 just figuring it out). So in college I started at the bottom (you know those classes you have to take if you fail the test...English and Math get you up to speed classes) and failed my first community college class and scrounged money, worked year round.....and took an extra year to finish school after transferring to the University because the meds alone cognitively slowed me down. I worked as much as possible as a life guard to earn money among other jobs. Been to the church food locker as a regular and food stamps when I had no job. Survival is a learned skill....and they stay with you a lifetime.
By 21, had been exposed to pick your kind of abuse, and pregnant at 23 with a violent husband-almost died from strangulation/rape/battery, and when I called back home to find safety-the last place I wanted to go...but better than being a dead parent or having a battered daughter....my mother was drunk and told me to see a priest......and no, I couldn't come home with the focus to keep her granddaughter safe....... The empty nesters didn't want their grown kids returning-they were done......and being 4 hours away......made it easy to say no.

Through all of this, I knew if I left, I had to have medical insurance to survive cause without medical care, I couldn't afford the seizure meds, lab tests, EEGs, etc. (current medicine costs w/o insurance $-my prescriptions to keep me vertical, in cash are over 1800.00/month), Planning for a job with medical insurance and retirement benefits a must and minimum income to survive, figure how to live within my means (that meant at times-very low income housing with lots of alcoholics/addicts in my neighborhood) had to be in my plan for surviving-not living. Also had a TBI at 32-the year after I became a teacher and had my first salaried job with retirement, and had to stop working for 2 years while I relearned how to walk, and talk, and change seizure meds, and deal with ADHD and processing issues, and relearn how to read (a skill a reading teacher needs)....We lived on unemployment for 2 years and church food closet handouts. Going home was not an option when I got the TBI-I'd get knocked down in life, but did my best to get back up and going again because I do believe that things work out. I had no choice...I had a child to take care of.

I've spent my whole life giving to others ....and who I think are enabled by me always being ready and willing to help and then it kinda becomes expected....I think making life too easy is just as harmful as giving no help....balance is important....and a debate will always be up for how much is too much help? Who gets it...who doesn't....the people who worked hard to get comfortable will be expected to give more and more at the expense of other's who may not have planned for their future. This kind of thing.....always a debate because my response is purely based on my life, my struggles, and needing to feel like I made it....to a place of comfort.. and no one has the right to take it away......they should have planned.....at least tried, but there are many who don't plan for the future........there is no right or wrong about this....no black or white .....just people's perspective on these kinds of social assistance debate topics and how they perceive it could impact their life.....very different....

So, I look at it from this perspective....you assume a lot in your answer......I've had all kinds of trauma-pick a trauma card.....I have a 75% chance of seeing my face there on that card......been there-in need, many times, been unemployed-had my brain screwed up several different times and ways, spent my life struggling and really do recognize everyone here has their own set of struggles and been surviving, and has their own story, as well as their own personal situation, strengths, weaknesses, dilemmas, and needs.

But our younger generations as a whole, are not prepared for what lies ahead nor as a general group, are as driven to look to their future and make preparations starting early (social security will fail) and kudos to those who have prepared......I pay over 1200.00 now a month for all my medical, meds, and MH to survive and do not qualify age wise for medical in the system and am not legally drawing disablity- for medicare ....but I knew if I wanted to be able to retire, I had to plan, have a job with retirement, and put money away monthly, and have a spare income on the side for emergencies. I created a fall back income (online business built over a number of years) as a supplement....and that meant going without luxuries, and staying home more often and spending lots of what would have been my free time working a second home job and while full time teaching.....so I'd have more security. I believe drive, values, fears, and one's core belief system play into ones need to be self-sufficient along with one's talents, willingness to plan ahead financially and not just live in the moment. Also, one's level of awareness of what's going on around them, their ability to problem-solve, level of creativity, and willingness to do without unnecessary items so they can get to a better place are all factors-and I typically see people say...haven't gotten around to putting 100.00/month away in savings after the age of 30....when they can-but don't want to do without anything.....then when there is a problem...down the road....they have no stash of cash to problem-solve or take care of those unforeseen problems-those unpredictable times you spoke of-sure people have floods, get cancer and can't work (but they can collect temporary disability or unemployment in some cases), and castraphies happen......been through a tornado with 20,000 damage.....glad I had insurance.

My life, my responsibility......and this way I've had to think to survive, and the stress involved in pushing through hard times....probably knocked off a few years of my life.....but because I have spent my life planning, busting my ass to work and bring up a child better than I was brought up, making sure I have medical and money for savings, being frugal.....I earned the right to retire, relax, and take care of me- so if I were terminal, now I could pay for life ending services-only because I thought ahead about surviving 25 years after retirement. I didn't always have extra, but I pushed myself to save, and never had the mindset that someone else should pay my way in life. I'm not a black and white thinker, I'm over 60 living the reality of how expensive it is to have medical problems, retire, and be secure for the long haul. I worked my tail off for 30 to retire. I guess I got selfish when I looked back at my life, left the last narcissistic X, saw that I still wasn't "happy in life", have no family going NC, so for the first time, I put me first, and still often feel like I'm struggling just to take care of me. I can say I planned for my future care, and I deserve to relax and take care of just me.....and I have always payed into the tax system and given my fair share....to our welfare system, medical system, and other social programs, and healthcare for others but here...we don't have standard life ending options. I personally will help anyone in need and always have to the detriment of myself..... but the bottom line....to improve things for others (adding services or improving services costs MORE $-and it is the tax payer like me who has to give more and more) so that others could have more help or better health benefits ......would mean that after I struggled to get where I am.....my lifestyle would have to change if taxpayers had to pay more .........While this sounds selfish....I just retired....I just started to feel what it is like to relax.....I'm not always dissociated anymore.......I'm not interested in giving more of my money to free/new medical when I'm paying out the ass and I don't qualify with 3 medical conditions that all involve my screwed up brain.... but not significant enough to get me reduced medical care but hearing aids aren't covered and they are 5000.00 every 5 years. My life hasn't been a bed of roses.....my rationale in this moment.....based on struggling my whole life to finally get to a place of basic comfort and basic security...and I earned that..........paying more into the system for new or additional services for free medical/life ending services for others when I'm hit heavy every month...not interested.....and I know this is a survival way of thinking.....not a caring way of thinking....but I just don't have any more emotional room to give to others right now...nor any financial room to give .....I don't know if you understand.....I will willingly choose to help someone in need on my own terms but not mandatory-........but I don't want to pay more taxes to give people more free services or better medical care, or services for the terminally ill....when I myself, pay over 1/3 of my monthly income in medical expenses. It's all in your perspective.
 
Thanks for all the perspectives shared here. I wonder how many of us plan?

I been wanting to make the advanced directives, end of life plan, appointing power of attorney...but to who!?!?!? My TBI makes it hard to plan and ptsd makes me anxious about making decisions.

For terminally ill if the wish is to die then it should be respected. I think it would be cheaper than hospice care and would free up bed space and staff.

For ptsd, it is a hard to say because previously i would be all for it knowing how the pain is unbearable and hopelessness. This year i am better thanks to increased skills and awareness etc. Support and treatment i think should be exhausted before assisted death.
 
I been wanting to make the advanced directives, end of life plan, appointing power of attorney...but to who!?!?!? My TBI makes it hard to plan and ptsd makes me anxious about making decisions.

Me too and just recently with the death of an immediate family member it was really driven home to me that I must make those decisions in advance and soon. Not because I have any death wish but simply because I know now, without a shadow of a doubt that I do not want to be held alive without being able to do even the most basic functions of living for myself. I don't want to be in that incredibly bad position where one is alive but not really living.

And it's not about money - because all of the money in the world cannot control pain after a certain point, nor provide comfort nor any viable alternatives to the way the event whatever that might be will leave me. So, if I put it in writing and let the right people know I can go on living and not worry about that happening to me. Good job done.

Also, I guess I am a bit of a believer in nature. If nature wants to kill me off and it's going to leave me unable to live without massive resources from everywhere...like life support etc., etc., I think nature should win and I should die.
 
I just want to state for the record that there was a time when I was early on my healing path when I prayed for death. I would cry, "God, please take me home."

What I later learned is that I did not really want to die, I just wanted the pain to stop (or to lessen). I am so very grateful that the 'spiritual powers that be' allowed me to continue living and spared my loved ones the pain of loss. The pain I was feeling decreased in intensity and frequency and today, I am happy to be alive regardless of how frustrating PTSD symptoms can sometimes be.
 
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