News Doctor-Assisted Death For Those Living With Ptsd

Friday

Moderator
to those against, depending on your bent it could be a sin; a waste; an affront against every living flower, so they say; or selfish, self-centered, or misled, or even one is not fully capable (really, though they are in their own skin).
Keep in mind, the differences between suicide, assisted suicide, and doctor assisted suicide. It’s not a black and white issue, much as news outlets like to soundbyte it into one.

Even in cultures (like the one I was raised in) where suicide is considered honorable -if executed in such a way as to not harm others- doctor assisted suicide is problematic, as are teen suicides, post partum depression suicides, bereavement suicides, etc. and are actively worked against by most people (including governments and religious institutions that not only do not condemn suicide, but will reverently preside over them). None of the judeochristian right/wrong good/bad applies. It’s simply a complicated issue, taking your own life, before further complicating it by taking the lives of others.
 

Rosebud

MyPTSD Pro
Yes I think I understand @Friday . But our laws in place are a bit different here, too. Coined medical assistance in dying, it is looking to include assistance in dying when death is not reasonably foreseeable; here we could could use the example ptsd vs pallaitive, it's a measure or criteria of anguish and pain. (And would be, in essence, somewhat still the same issue even if the person self-administered). So one could say not framed as suicide, but rather a solution. I am just wondering, is anyone framing the actual problem? :confused:
 
MANY things are gray, not sure why this in particular we should steer clear of.

^I wasn't referring to anything else but this issue.

I wasn't saying we should not discuss, research etc this issue either.

Conflating it out into the wild with all of the other greyness is not helpful at all. And it doesn't move the discussion on this particular issue forward by doing so.

This is the thread topic we are talking about; my opinion is that it is grey and we should use extreme caution simply and only because of that. There are other reasons too but it being grey is enough.

I don't want to discuss what the right thing to do re other grey issues/problems/solutions. Just this thread topic.

Right now we don't lack in compassion as much as we lack consensus.

Right now ^^ imo, we seriously lack both.

it is looking to include assistance in dying when death is not reasonably foreseeable

Where is this place? My country has States that have legislation in place and it has been used. At this stage death must be expected within six months. And there are many hurdles to jump before that can be determined and confirmed.
Ptsd would not even get a look in and rightfully so.

I am just wondering, is anyone framing the actual problem?

^What are you saying?
 

Rosebud

MyPTSD Pro
I am sorry too if anything I said was triggering. :(

Canada.

^What are you saying?

I am saying the same as what @Ronin said below:
Frame death as a solution and you get into *very* ugly waters, very fast.
and
We are talking a bunch of hurting people, often for what *other* people unlawfully did to them.

It's like saying, the problem is pain and anguish, the solution is death. But no one seems to wonder why specifically there's pain and anguish, or what to do about it to alleviate it. It's often more than physical, even when the illness is considered a physical one.

An example 'could' be ptsd; if someone is not aware of what they can do, or what exists; if they are shunned and misunderstood or excluded; if they have little availability to resources or support or acceptance around them, they will feel likely differently than people say, on this forum. On this forum, conversely, people might say, ~I deal with that, this (X) is what helps me. Or, even if it doesn't help you (yet), it's part of the road but you will get through it, or I will accompany you as you try. (Not inferring by any means ptsd is the worst, but if someone presented and you knew they didn't have to be suffering as they were, that there were things to do, and on top of it they didn't have to think they were the only one experiencing such things, you'd feel remiss not to say so. Well, I shouldn't say 'you', I should say me/ myself.)

Like, when I have any problem, and someone with more knowledge/ experience helps, I feel differently about the problem/ situation, especially if they are helping me. Or I do the same for someone who has less experience in something that I do.
 
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Ronin

MyPTSD Pro
I'm not that sure 'no one is working on alleviating it' ain't a distortion, or own depressive thinking & helplessness, though.

Imo by saying, We are not gonna let you kill you so easily much less do it ourselves earliest opportunity?

People within systems & making & enforcing the 'systemic' standards are taking a rather strong stance toward doing something.

Aka care for the suffering. A lot.
'Go jump that landmine if you're so disheartened by life' is an attitude of states & actors that don't give a f*ck.

Don't know where this 'no one cares, *principially*' first world issue stems from. Just keep seeing the argument around a lot.

(Equally, not triggered. Just something I feel strongly about. And am puzzled by, seeing.)
 

Rosebud

MyPTSD Pro
Yes, you're probably right @Ronin . I suppose more accurately I mean, there's a lot of talk of why or why not (though the majority polled say they are for it, though not necessarily across the board), and not so much why so many want to opt for it. Or if that has any bearing on anyone outside of the medical system proper, or what could possible alter that, either way (irl, not on paper). But sure, confirmation bias amongst other things would be there on my part. I kind of factored that in, but then again I could never be totally objective. And really, everyone's decision is their own.

Thanks for your comment.
 

TruthSeeker

MyPTSD Pro
MANY things are gray, not sure why this in particular we should steer clear of. I know, we're talking about different levels of safety and security, but still. Lots of things are gray until enough people DO them so "everyone" in a society has a consensus. Right now we don't lack in compassion as much as we lack consensus.
Not arguing in favor of it but I'm in a place where the only two people I love are much older than I am and that leaves me with a bit of an uncertain feeling sometimes.
When I was studying in school, I felt strongly enough to compose an extensive project regarding Dr. Kevorkian who was all over the news in the U.S. in the 1990's. At the time I took it on as a philosophical project - I never thought I'd be wishing for my own death. But there you are. It's interesting for me to remember my incredibly STRONG feelings for people to make PERSONAL choices. When it didn't apply to me.
So now that I think it might apply a little to me... It is reinforced by my natural philosophy, not simply based on personal experience. Thanks for everyone being willing to engage on such a painful topic.

I'm good with it in terminal cases....where the doc says there is no hope of recovery.....to end suffering. The person has no choice....fate has made the decision. There is sometimes, and other times not, time to adjust and accept the outcome, but because fate has dictated being terminal, one can grieve and prepare for their own death, and prepare others (those left behind, their children, grandchildren, best friends, and loved ones) and say goodby, I love you or whatever; have input into one's own funeral arrangements, even plan the life party or memorial, the issues with cremation or burial....and so forth....because fate has dealt the card.

PTSD was not caused by me, it was directly caused by other people....and events.....some very awful events....not that my reactions didn't muck things up even more. Ending my life wouldn't make them sad (those who harmed me, nor even make them pay attention or feel sorry for their actions....they'd probably be glad- they can put away their wrongdoing and it won't eat at them anymore. It would make a few others very sad if I died, and then they'd have their own shit to deal with-their own loss issues....and if they aren't healthy....then they could spiral and destabilize. So, I think there is a kind of grace in letting fate handle the inevitable-death issue; so that we don't do harm to others by making rash decisions and leaving behind a mess or awful tragic event....the dead body....and guilt for those around you who would feel they "should have known....should have done something to prevent you from doing it"..and guilt themselves into an awful negative state. The person on the other end of that, or whoever finds the dead body, will likely be traumatized....and that is unacceptable to me.....I don't have the right to take my own life so I'm no longer in pain, knowing the trade off would be that I might hurt someone else terribly in the process possibly giving them trauma.....that....is selfish.
 

Allie D.

MyPTSD Pro
.and guilt themselves into an awful negative state. The person on the other end of that, or whoever finds the dead body, will likely be traumatized....and that is unacceptable to me.....I don't have the right to take my own life so I'm no longer in pain, knowing the trade off would be that I might hurt someone else terribly in the process possibly giving them trauma.....that....is selfish.
I agree... I would never do anything without the support of those 2 people that care. Other than that I've withdrawn completely. And they know I suffer. If I made a case, I believe they'd go for it. But they're my parents and they are aging and after that, no one left to hurt, really. It's just the facts.

My state of mind is not appropriate for a detached discussion of the news; I'm so sorry. Maybe I should move to a new thread. But I don't know where might be appropriate, so I am replying to TruthSeeker here.

Anyway. I signed paper after paper at the age of 25 confirming I will never recover from my illnesses. And not only would I not be able to follow my chosen career, I would never ever be gainfully employed for the rest of my life, however long that might be. So this is very relevant to me.

Basically I feel more and more that it's okay for me to go ahead and end my suffering. WITH consultation with those 2 people, and a doctor, and an arrangements to avoid those inconveniences like messes to clean up.

I feel guilty that my family is forced to see me suffer. THAT is the more painful thing to me, watching my parents helplessly watch their child be in pain. They hope I'll get better and they speak optimistically - "You can still be a writer!" but no one really expects anything meaningful out of me anymore.
Edit: I do not view anyone's life this way but my own. I feel a lot of personal pain and that's where my words come from.
 
but no one really expects anything meaningful out of me anymore.

^You speak of your usefulness, your productivity, your unemployment status and equate that with ^^.

You speak of what others might expect of you, of you disappointing people you love, of 'others'. It's not about anyone else but you because this is your life and only your life.

I lost my career, I've lost many things in my life too. I understand loss, pain, grief and even what I trained and studied for many years now, no longer in my trajectory. And I can empathise.

But life isn't just about those things or indeed many other things. It isn't about what other people expect you to produce or even what you, yourself might expect to produce. It's much more complex than this. To deny this is to deny the prospect of change and possibilities that you've not yet perhaps even imagined.

Meaning and a meaningful life are not measured by outcomes. Well not all of it and not all of the time.

I'm not trying to minimise your pain, suffering or loss. Your self worth or notably your lack thereof, is not tied to measurable outcomes like what you've described.

You seem very depressed & imo again, just my opinion here, that's never a good space to be thinking about end of life decisions.
 
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