My Mom Was Molested, Too?!?

[Nicolette]

I can agree with that Bloom.

 

[hazen]

My mother was beaten repeatedly by her horrible drunk father... from what it sounds like, more violently than she ever beat me.

That doesn't excuse her beating me. Nothing excuses it. Ever.

angel, my heart goes out to you as you deal with this incredibly hard situation, and I agree with everything Nicolette said in this thread! Guilt doesn't help us!

 

[Nicolette]

That doesn't excuse her beating me. Nothing excuses it. Ever.

Wholeheartedly agree!

 

[Srain]

I don't know if it's the right answer... but I feel angry. :notworthy: I feel really angry with her for not trying to get some kind of help and then helping us. And I feel guilty for feeling that way.

That's a stage I have gone through several times with my mother and I have come up with several reasons why as well as excuses. Do they matter in my recovery?? No.

Here are my excuses for not getting help. My father was psychologist who molested me then when it was obvious I was having serious problems and even the school was noticing they sent me to one of his students who concurred I had no problems even though I was clear about having dissociation and was high during several session at the age of 9. My father declared me as always having "something wrong that there is no answer for and completely drug free".Thus leaving no avenue for receiving outside help of any kind!

The cult setting that Simply spoke of is a pedaphile cult and yes, it does exist because my father was part of it and I became part of it around the outskirts of the universities where we lived. Lots of them evolved around the psychology field, oddly enough. I have every reason NOT to seek help yet I never stopped looking because I truly believed this is the answer and doing nothing was not an option once my head cleared.

That being said, my mother was and is a very intelligent woman. No excuses. Regardless I have to heal and look at her from a different perspective. Would I have treated MY daughter like that??? Would you???

Rain

 

[BloomInWinter]

My Mom did me so much damage by choosing to stay with my father.

But by what I've discovered about both their extended families, I guess I do believe she did the best she was able to given the circumstances. It was still damaging and inadequate.

One of the benefits of going to Al-anon and ACA all these years is working on this stuff regularly helps me know that I did nothing to cause that situation. Nothing I did could have cured it. But if I don't continue working on it, I sure can contribute to passing it down to the next generation. Helps with the enormous guilt I feel for not being able to save my family of origin.

When an abused person describes that abuse as 'a relationship', that is a defensive mental stance that protects them from going crazy. They aren't deliberately lying, generally. They just aren't strong enough for their mind to put down that defense and see it for what it was. The more they are still in it, the tougher that mental defense has to be guarded.

When a history of abuse is met with invalidation, judgment, anger, blaming/shaming/hating on them, they are validated in their belief that they deserved it, caused it, or that nobody cares or would have helped, anyway.

I do try to never side with an abuser against a victim, no matter how much I may dislike the victim. Because if my acceptance can help them even a tiny bit....that might help the people in their lives.

Hard to do with family. But I do think just listening to the women in my family is one of the reasons I know so much more about their horrible upbringings than others. ....amazing what you can learn about 'the good old days' when inviting them to share and witnessing their pain. Makes me grateful I live now instead of then.

 

[SimplyComplex]

My mom, interestingly, got "help". She even worked for a victim's program while she was abusing me. She saw low level counselors who supported her victim-stance but left them when they challenged her to start making changes in her own life. She has seen p-docs but only once or twice and went running for their hills saying they didn't "understand abuse survivors". Which may be true, but they had things to offer her if she was at all willing to seek real help. This keeps me working hard because I don't want to get to the "they abused me" part and get stuck in helplessness.

 

[angel2write]

I've been thinking about this today. Obviously I'm not the only person dealing with how to feel about an abuser who was, themselves, abused. I don't know if my thoughts will help anybody else.

The line I've been fed all my life by helpful people was, "Well, your mom was doing the best she knew how." While I believe this is probably true (much like Bloom pointed out- there weren't a lot of options), the same thing could be said of Jeffery Dahlmer. By that note, everyone on Earth is "doing the best they know how." There has to be some sort of accountability.

I've known all my life that she was physically and emotionally abused by her mom. The sexual abuse was a little bit of a shocker. But I've known she was abused. And, in telling me all about her abuse many times, she's extorted a great deal of sympathy and pity out of me over the years. I think sometimes she'd feel guilty for how badly she hurt us or beat us, so she'd come and tell us how much worse her mom beat her and end up making US comfort HER after abusing us. Gack.

I have always felt sorry for them. But what happened this weekend kind of a wake up call. At dinner one night, my dad was extorting sympathy for his sad childhood where his dad "was drunk a lot and wouldn't play football with him." My mom leaned over and said to me very intensely, "Can you imagine what it would be like to have a dad who wouldn't even play a game of catch with you?" And I wanted to yell, "No, but I can imagine what it's like to have a dad who beat my baby sister so violently she went into convulsions and started foaming at the mouth! Top that one!"

My mom pulls me aside and is dragging pity and sympathy out of me because she was statutory raped when she was sixteen by her uncle, who didn't even physically damage or threaten her. I was gang-raped by three men who held me down, gagged me, choked me, hurt me (and did other stuff I don't want to spill here) when I was six. But she never had any pity or sympathy for me. Instead, when she found out about it, she raged at me for two days, then never talked about it again.

I can sympathize with their pain. Why can't they sympathize with mine? I guess that's where the anger is coming from. I can forgive a lot, knowing their background. What I cannot seem to forgive is their absolute stone-cold attitude towards me and my siblings. It doesn't seem fair to abuse us WORSE than they were abused, and then get angry with us and blame us when we hurt, or cry, or show symptoms of PTSD. If I had a nickle for every time I was beaten for something I couldn't help... My grandmother says my father was never even spanked when he was a kid! Who taught him how to beat the :poop: out of his kids?

And where do they get off, thinking they deserve my sympathy for their tough childhoods? How about this. I'm cutting off the sympathy pipe-line. They don't get any more of my sympathy until it starts flowing both ways. Is that so unfair?

 

[BloomInWinter]

(((((angel2write)))))

It is not my intention to tell you to feel any differently than you do. You feel what you feel, and you are the one who has to live with your feelings and heal your hurts.

'Doing the best she knew how' - in regards to my mom - is truly not an attempt to place judgment, as clearly her efforts weren't adequate. Not saying it wasn't awful, not saying it wasn't hurtful. Just...that's the truth I have to live with. That my Mom's best efforts weren't good enough. I used to have NO sympathy for her at all.

Then she died when I was 21 and I lost the chance to ever ask her for support, find out why she did some actions, why she didn't do others I thought she did....all I do have to go on for answers is truly my broken, faulty, traumatized and deficient teen memories, fragments of family conversations, and news articles.

I don't know if my Mom would have ever found healing or accepted it were it even offered. It didn't happen for her in her lifetime. How I WISH I had been able to talk to her one more time, as the adult I am now.

I'm sorry if it seems like I am siding with your Mom against you. That is not where my response was focused, but rather, that your mom never had anyone on her side against her abuser.

Her attempts to get validation seem to have been met with more of the same...so, if that is the response an abused person gets from the people in her life (I'm not talking about you here, but in general) - how do they have hope of getting better?

I'm not suggesting it's on you to give that to her...she has to keep looking until she dies or finds it. Sounds unlikely she will. But that's not your issue to deal with. They do sound like toxic, sick people who aren't healthy to be around.

But if you were a friend IRL, I'd wonder...if you feel they are the type of people deserving of no empathy, sympathy, or whatever....why bother continuing to have contact it all? Is it worth the pain to spend your time with them?

I would never get validating responses from my dad, sisters....even when reaching out with compassion and kindness. Eventually, my hubby begged me to stop putting myself through that. ...and I'm so glad I did finally stop going into their family gatherings only to leave with ripped open scars and new wounds on top.

You have Bear in your life.

I have my dear hubby.

It feels like we were cheated out of our childhoods and having loving, healthy Mommies because we were.

Our healing isn't likely to come from our families of origin.

Absolutely she SHOULD have believed you, protected you, helped you heal, begged your forgiveness over and over and over. Made a living amends by changing her present behavior (not an option in my case).

What do you need from her now? Is she willing to give it? Is she able to give it?

I believe my Mom would be willing, if she had lived. But...not able.

That's why I can forgive my Mom, finally. In moments. On my good days. But it's taken over 20 years after her death to even get to the point where I can see her actions as being not about me...even though they were hurtful.

The rest of the time, I'm still mad at her. ...and it's ok to be mad at her. Just like it's ok to not forgive, give sympathy, or whatever we need to do.

It's ok. I'm sorry for not expressiving myself well. I feel nothing by sympathy and grief and sadness for you and your family. Truly did not mean to sound judging.

 

[Nicolette]

I'm sorry if it seems like I am siding with your Mom against you. That is not where my response was focused, but rather, that your mom never had anyone on her side against her abuser.

Her attempts to get validation seem to have been met with more of the same...so, if that is the response an abused person gets from the people in her life (I'm not talking about you here, but in general) - how do they have hope of getting better?

Bloom you are a very well liked and respected member of the forum so I don't want to upset you however I would like to challenge your comments above. I realized what 'really' happened to me made me different as I became and adult and saw differently families interact, how people treated their children and it even eeked me to watch children being hugged and kissed as I had no idea of how to relate to that.

So, in essence, until I started looking for answers I never had anyone on my side against my abuser. When things happened to me as an adult, due to being attracted to unhealthy partners due to that being familiar, I slowly realized what was happening. I read every book I could, talked over and over to anyone who would listen and finally found support. Not anyone "siding" with me as it's not about that for me.

If I apply what you say to make life, if I hadn't worked by myself to get to a certain point, I could have ended up with no-one on my side, no validation. Would that then make it ok if I abused my own child, even to a lesser extent?

Hope has to come within........ you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Your mum could have tried to get better if she wanted to. Also, her dying doesn't change anything IMHO in relation to answers as my mum is still alive yet still in denial so would not even discuss the possibilities of issues. I have seen her do that to my sister who now is one screwed up mess with PTSD (Complex).

I would never get validating responses from my dad, sisters....even when reaching out with compassion and kindness. Eventually, my hubby begged me to stop putting myself through that. ...and I'm so glad I did finally stop going into their family gatherings only to leave with ripped open scars and new wounds on top.

This says to me the opposite of what you are trying to state above and in your previous post with the exception that you exclude your mother from 'your family' in defining unhealthy relationships. Why?

I believe my Mom would be willing, if she had lived. But...not able.

That's why I can forgive my Mom, finally. In moments. On my good days. But it's taken over 20 years after her death to even get to the point where I can see her actions as being not about me...even though they were hurtful.

I am sorry but I disagree with this based on my experience. I had hoped for 25 years that my mother would be a 'parent' to me and she never got there and never showed any desire to be willing let alone have the ability to do so. To have the will is also useless if it leads to nothing IMHO.

I think your mother's actions were about her - this I agree with. But IMHO they should have been about you too! I have forgiven my mother for not knowing better but I don't accept what she did to me as being something I will allow to continue in my life. Forgiveness was for me to let go of my hurt - not to release her from her failings.

Just my opinion.

 

[angel2write]

'Doing the best she knew how' - in regards to my mom - is truly not an attempt to place judgment, as clearly her efforts weren't adequate.

I wasn't quoting you, Bloom. I was thinking of a slew of church people and bad counselors over the years who have given me this advice without taking the time to truly understand the situation. Most of the people who think that all I need to heal my relationship with my mom is a little forgiveness and understanding have no idea what the reality of living with a mentally ill, abusive parent is like.

I've given this woman so much sympathy and understanding and help and support through the years... I've made so many sick excuses for her and accepted so much bad behavior from her that sometimes it's hard for me to look at her behavior objectively and say, "Wait. This is wrong. She's manipulating me again." And wow, does she ever know how to push my buttons. :(

What do you need from her now? Is she willing to give it? Is she able to give it?

An interesting question.

I don't NEED anything from her... except maybe some respect. If I could wave my magic fairy wand and get anything I wanted from my mother, it would just be for her to stop attacking me when she gets upset. I work really hard to be kind to her, and I'd just like her to realize that. To look at me and think, "Wow- my daughter really loves and cares for me." Instead, the slightest thing can set her off, and then she treats me like I'm the cause of all of her problems. I wish I could find some way to take off my "Kick me!" T-shirt and get some respect without being mean to the woman. Every time I try to draw some kind of line... maybe say, "Mom, if you keep calling me names, I'm going to hang up the phone," it causes this huge family uproar. (Their latest trick is really fun. If mom attacks me and I try to disengage or defend myself, dad threatens to cry. Or cries. And then my mom goes after me for making my terminally ill father cry. It's a hoot- we should be on TV.)

Is my mom ever going to be able to treat me with respect? Well, I'm not holding my breath. Right now Bear and I are pursuing a policy of limited contact in short spurts. I want my kids to have a chance to know their grandparents without being permanently damaged by them. And I don't want to shirk my share of caring for them when they're sick. They weren't fab parents, but that's not an excuse for me to abandon and punish them now that they're old and (relatively) helpless. Hard to draw the line of being there for them without letting them kick me around. Do you know?

It's ok. I'm sorry for not expressiving myself well. I feel nothing by sympathy and grief and sadness for you and your family. Truly did not mean to sound judging.

I don't think you did. You're just processing from a different direction from me. And you have good points.

 

[angel2write]

And you have good points.

I meant you made good points in your reply! :D

Which is not to say that you don't also have many good points as a person... of course. :confused: (removing foot from mouth.)

 

[angel2write]

I am sorry but I disagree with this based on my experience. I had hoped for 25 years that my mother would be a 'parent' to me and she never got there and never showed any desire to be willing let alone have the ability to do so. To have the will is also useless if it leads to nothing IMHO.

Yeah, Nicolette. Plus I've often thought it will be easier to forgive them once they're dead and have to stop hurting me. Kind of a callous thing to say, maybe, but it's hard to forgive someone while they're still kicking you. I try, but it's more challenging!