(warning: Rant) "survivor".

[sea]

Every time I see the word "survivor" I want to f*cking punch something. Is there seriously something that wrong in our society that even within those who are victimized, being considered a victim is somehow bad? That's not noble, it's just ridiculous. It's blame and shame. Why do you think nobody wants to be a victim? Because they are treated like shit.

People have distorted the meaning of the word victim to somehow mean "person who is totally incapable of doing anything, person who doesn't want to do anything, person who is lazy, person who doesn't want to get help, person who is making a ploy for sympathy and manipulating your emotions when they express feelings of victimization (which are wrong)."

Since f*cking when? All a victim is, is a person who has been victimized. That's it. Victim is not some kind of weird permanent mindstate where you suck all the joy out of the universe and can never heal.

How a person deals with being victimized is individualistic and has nothing to do with being a victim. People today seem to confuse being a victim with playing the victim. They've distanced "healing" with "victimization" like the two are mutually exclusive. It's like this weird, pseudo, mind-control-f*cked-up-bullshit where everyone is totally convinced that if you have been victimized, you must distance yourself entirely from having been victimized in order to totally move on and be well and be happy because Sad Is Bad.

Victim is not analogous to "not healed." Victim is a legal statement saying one has been victimized. "Oh, no, I'm not a victim, hahahahaha." Like, if they were a victim, it's some kind of stain on their soul that must be rubbed and scratched out and written over and "Oh no, that was never here, I'm healed now! I'm not a victim of crime cause I'm all better!"

Survivor sounds so f*cking condescending to me. The whole thing is designed to make people feel bad for feeling bad, and feel bad for not just Getting Over It. It's why I would prefer to be called a sufferer than a survivor. "Oh, you're a survivor, you're thriving, you're doing so well, that means you're good and those other poor bastard victims are just in the corner being all mopey and bad, because being sad is bad."

Jesus. Spare me.

(And because nobody ever seems to understand anything I say and I never understand anything anybody else says, and people usually miss the entire point of what I've just said to state something in "disagreement" which I've just said [it happens every time I rant], let the arguments begin. I'm pretty much not even going to return to this thread, I just had to get it out there. I'm so tired of seeing that damn word everywhere.)

 

[Clockwork]

Hello Sea I’m sorry it sounds like what you say incurs opposition (I’m new here and haven’t read any of your other posts so maybe I’m missing something) but I wanted to say I wholeheartedly agree with you about the insistence of people on using the label ‘survivor’ instead of ‘victim’.

It’s hard enough dealing with the aftermath of things that happened, without being pressured into feeling there’s something even more wrong with you for daring to see yourself as a victim. And the insistence on having to be labelled a ‘survivor’ does tend to send the message that you’re doing something wrong by experiencing yourself as ‘done to’, and that you’re not supposed to experience the feelings of helpnessness and powerlessness as a result of things happening beyond your control – the focus being taking responsibility for self and being judged for using being a victim as a form of emotional manipulation etc etc I could get into my own little rant here so won’t go on.

Just wanted to say I get what you’re saying and I agree.

Clockwork

 

[Srain]

I get what you saying and it makes sense from where you are and I can appreciate that.

I refuse to be labeled "Victim" because that was then and this NOW, I am no longer a victim, I am Surviving the results. I refuse to live in the victimization.

 

[maddog]

I actually don't want to be labelled as anything at all, the end.

I am a person who has experienced certain things in life, just the same way everyone else has. The fact that some of those things are different from those things that the majority of other people have experienced is irrelevant in general conversation.

I hate labels, I really do. It's too tied up with the discussion of stigma that we've been having recently, and the minute you throw a label at someone, you also throw the series of assumptions and presumptions and judgments that you have assigned to that label.

I do understand why society feels the need to label, it helps us to order things and to assign meaning to things we don't understand by merely adopting the meaning that has been assigned to that label. But as the person being labelled, I truly don't see any benefits, and plenty of disadvantages.

And "victim" and "survivor" are inherently emotive terms that do even more damage than the more clinical labels such as "complainant" which is the legal term for anyone who has commenced legal actions against an abuser, here in Aus anyway.

And for what it's worth Sea, I don't find your posts to be "out there" at all - I actually find them insightful, and straight shooting, and often very witty even while delivering very serious content. I always read them!

Maddog

 

[Meadowsweet]

I don't mind the word victim now, if it is used in its proper context, ie, I have been a victim of a crime. Thats factual and has nothing to do with the notion of 'acting' or 'playing' victim, which is a tool of social manipulation and emotional blackmail.

I find the word 'survivor' patronising, and its something I associate again with social and emotional manipulation.

I don't mind the word sufferer as much, although I don't like seeing supporters talking about 'my sufferer', rather than my husband/wife/friend who suffers with ptsd.

In general, I think labels go wrong when they are used to replace a persons identity as a human being.

I have been a victim of crime, but 'I' am 'a person', not 'a victim'.
I have survived life threatening situations, but I survived as a person, not a survivor.
I suffer with symptoms of ptsd, but I like to think I'm still a person, not just a sufferer.

I guess I'm a person who is dealing with issues. I'm a dealer:)

 

[sea]

Thank you for your replies everyone and I'm glad nobody tried to take a bite out of me. I'm sorry if my tone in my original post came across as hostile. I'm in a ~hostile sorta place~ lately. :(

Now for more fodder I just want to add, don't confuse me - I'm not interested in being called anything at all. This isn't some ploy for my, idk, right to be called a victim. It just pisses me off that a logical, legal, effective term like victim is inherently stigmatized and degraded for absolutely no reason.

The other day I referred to someone as a rape victim and they got all f*cking uptight and pissy with me, "Oh, I'm not a rape victim, I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor!"

Like... to the point where people refuse to even be victims of crime? They must instead be survivors of crime? The inherent message that sends which is that it is a bad thing to feel bad, it's a bad thing to have bad things happen to you, it's your fault, and you have a choice to just get over it and heal and if you don't then you're a victim and you're just weighing everyone down on purpose with your selfish, manipulative negative, victimly emotions.

Recently heard about someone's therapist saying to them "Oh, you're still thinking like a victim," because they were preoccupied with an assault that happened like that month. Are you f*cking shitting me? That has nothing to do with being a victim. That's my point - victim isn't some kind of chosen label. All it means is that something has happened to you. It's not a f*cking choice.

It doesn't bother me that people prefer to be called survivors. That's your choice. (Get it?) It's not like I'm over the moon to be called a victim. It sucks, victimization sucks. But that's what it was and that's what happened, what the f*ck else am I supposed to call it? And people want to get in my f*cking face because I call it what it is. (And to say I am a survivor is just not something I can force myself to do, it sounds patronizing beyond belief, so that's a personal choice.)

It bothers me that people replace the word victim with survivor. They are absolutely not the same thing. Survivor has an element of choice and responsibility that victim does not. Implying that a person should be a survivor instead of a victim (instead of the logical conclusion which is that a person IS BOTH and they are not mutually exclusive) basically makes it your fault if you're victimized because all you have to do is just choose to be a survivor and everything will be just fine.

 

[The Albatross]

For myself (since I use "survivor" in the tag under my user name)... I find some comfort in the use of that word. I see it when I log on or look at my posts. I can consciously remember (when my mind puts me back in replay of traumatic events, memory retrievals, or flashback or disassociation) that it is past. It is over. I got through it. It helps me to avoid the worst episodes when something triggering happens. It is a tool. Just like grounding by wearing my FIL's and father's rings are when I am anticipating difficult situations.

I don't read into the term, " that sends which is that it is a bad thing to feel bad, it's a bad thing to have bad things happen to you, it's your fault, and you have a choice to just get over it and heal and if you don't then you're a victim and you're just weighing everyone down on purpose with your selfish, manipulative negative emotions."

I find cues in the deffinition that I intentionally send to my subconscious when I see the word that I find not only self comforting but also empowering and life affirming... sort of a self innoculation for my depressive aspect.

• To remain alive or in existence.
• To carry on despite hardships or trauma; persevere
• To remain functional or usable
• To live longer than; outlive
• To live, persist, or remain usable
• To cope with (a trauma or setback)

But I can certainly respect the opinions shared. I guess it's a "you say po-TAY-toe, I say po-TAH-toe" sort of thing.

 

[The Albatross]

P.S. Sea... hope you don't read the post above as "taking a bite out of you"... it is a personal difference. That is all. I look forward to the time when I won't need coping tools and can self perpetuate and sustain my self without depression, DID, anxiety, and fear... but I'm just not there yet.

 

[The Albatross]

I don't mind the word sufferer as much, although I don't like seeing supporters talking about 'my sufferer', rather than my husband/wife/friend who suffers with ptsd.

"Sufferer" bothers the heck out of me and my mind automatically skims the word when it is used here in the forum... I don't like being associated with it at all but don't take exception to the intent of it's use.

I guess my preference it to avoid and redirect my perception away from "suffering" and guide my thoughts more toward longivity, functionality, being of good use, coping, perservering... and maybe even outliving the PTSD. (Yeah I haven't given up on the idea of being symptom free yet. Perhaps it is another coping strategy that motivates me for challenges and risk taking.)

In general, I think labels go wrong when they are used to replace a persons identity as a human being.

I have been a victim of crime, but 'I' am 'a person', not 'a victim'.
I have survived life threatening situations, but I survived as a person, not a survivor.
I suffer with symptoms of ptsd, but I like to think I'm still a person, not just a sufferer.

I guess I'm a person who is dealing with issues. I'm a dealer:)

I really like this comment Meadowsweet though a survivor most often is a person, it can also be an object. I think it can be really helpful to remember as you said, "I have survived life threatening situations... I survived as a person."

 

[sea]

P.S. Sea... hope you don't read the post above as "taking a bite out of you"... it is a personal difference.

Nope, like I said, that stuff doesn't really bother me anyway, it just bugs me when people don't call shit what it is. From my perspective, you can call loads of people survivors and still be calling something what it is. It's true, you're surviving. That makes sense. Of course it does. But if you try and deny that what happened was something that happened to you, and victimized you, thus making you a victim of that crime, regardless of whether or not you made the choice to begin to heal - right?

It's like "Potato, orange juice." You know? People think that there is this big f*cking deal when it comes to having been victim of something, like it says something about your character, or like it's a choice to have been a victim in the first place. Being a victim isn't a choice. Being a survivor is a choice. To me, the term survivor implies "Person who has chosen to heal from trauma." Do you see how victim/survivor are absolutely not interchangeable?

It's like a timeline. Albatross Was The Victim Of A Crime. Now Albatross Has Chosen To Heal And Thus Calls Herself A Survivor. But if you look back at the timeline, you were still a victim. Just because you've chosen to heal and become a survivor doesn't suddenly negate the fact that you were a victim of what happened to you. It doesn't say anything about you, it's just what happened. You know what I mean? I just get so tired of people getting all uptight at me because I'm not being "Empowering enough" by playing into their weird little, whatever.

God, it's not even that big of a deal, I just get frustrated when people get all out of shape because I'm "calling them a victim" like it's a f*cking insult! LOL! Jesus! :rolleyes: And to be honest the word survivor just bugs me. A lot. Because to me it just reminds me of all of this insidious crap. Individually I can understand how Albatross or Srain choose to identify themselves that way, but for me, I see that and I see the way other people are going to interpret that, and the most common interpretations of that, and how it feeds into this weird sociopolitical bullshit that says Being A Victim Is Wrong And You Can Choose To Stop.

No. You can choose to heal. You can't just erase the whole trauma and victimization just because you chose to heal. They're not an interchangeable set. This is obviously not referring to the actual use of the word survivor, which nobody ever seems to be implying, which is just a person who has survived an event I.E: The survivor of a crash, Earthquake, etc. Because to me if people were implying that, they would also understand that it's not mutually exclusive with having been a victim at some point in the timeline and it's a purely physical word as in you're physically alive.

People always get after me for being semantic. Like after people finally read my arguments they realize most of what I'm talking about is entirely semantic and sequential. Well, yeah, it is. That's how people absorb information around them, you say things a certain way and it's not something you consciously think about, but that's the thready undercurrent of what's happening. How a person communicates is just as important as what they communicate. How Albatross says "Well, I'm surviving," - that makes sense. Right?

IDK how to explain it any better. Some times it makes me want to punch things, sometimes I get it, but all the time - there is still a huge f*cking problem with people.

 

[The Albatross]

I dunno. I guess I don't carry any shame anymore about "victim". It's like someone trying to insult me by saying you have a scar under your left eye. Or you have brown eyes, your nose is crooked. I do have scars, I do have brown eyes, my nose is crooked. I don't have shame associated with things that are true. I was victimized and the perpetrators were committing criminal acts. That is true. But I have, over the years been able to trancend most of the pain, shame and grief associated with the events. Not consistently, but at times.

If people are getting tight and spewing on you for deffinitions, they are derailing the real issue and looking for something to be offended about. It is a way to sideline or table the conversation and shunt off their own feelings of rage, shame, grief, fear, anxiety, stress, frustration. It is a self preservation technique as well... some people aren't comfortable with having their identities or perceptions challenged. It is entirely perceptual.

In my case for instance, I got no problem with your post above. I am many things... a former victim is just one aspect of who I am or rather was. I say was, because I consciously examined what it meant to me and made a decision of how I am best served with regard to the rest of my life. I am choosing to focus on a positive aspect of my life experience... survivor and survivorship. It still incorporates the experiences, but it frames them up in a way that best serves the person I am and would prefer to be moving forward.

Soooo... late.... 4-5 year olds in 15 minutes!!! BBL

 

[sea]

I dunno. I guess I don't carry any shame anymore about "victim". It's like someone trying to insult me by saying you have a scar under your left eye. Or you have brown eyes, your nose is crooked. I do have scars, I do have brown eyes, my nose is crooked.

That's pretty much exactly what I mean and it's exactly the point of my rant. There are instances where people use "survivor" and they basically mean "Well, because victim is insulting." Like the implication is that being a victim is a shameful choice, being a survivor is the better choice. Like, you know? "Oh, I refuse to be victimized." It's... not... a choice. What're you gonna do if someone walks up and tries to punch you in the face? "Oh, sorry. I'm not being victimized anymore. Yeah, go away."

Gee, I wish all crime could be solved like that!

It's like the person who's therapist was like "You're thinking like a victim." What? I wasn't aware that victims thought like anything. Is that like thinking particularly brown-eyed? "You have to think like a survivor." Uggrghhhhh. People confuse pity-party and self-pity and woe-is-me and angst and preoccupation with your problems, and playing the victim - with actually just being a Victim: Fact. It's a fact, it's not a f*cking personality trait.