The Work And Byron Katie: Reviews?

[dharmaBum]

I'm curious if anyone here is familiar with the process of self-inquiry called The Work, which is self-proclaimed by developer Byron Katie to ~end all suffering by changing the thoughts that cause us to suffer~.

While Katie is not a licensed mental health professional and her process is carefully not called therapy, her program is authorized to provide ongoing education credits for mental health professionals.

I came across the process called The Work about two months ago while researching exposure therapy online. I had an initially mesmerized reaction which suddenly became a PTSD triggered frightful reaction when I saw a video of Katie telling a young woman who had been overtly controlled by a domineering parent that she, as a child, made the choice to comply with her father's threatening requests. Katie went on to say that if she were being tortured, it would be her choice to comply with the threats- no terrorist could make her give in, if she did, it was her choice. Other videos and transcripts of Katie's process show similar emphasis on what I think is essentially victim-blame couched as personal responsibility.

I did some research on Katie, which wasn't easy because her background is not transparent, and learned that she has no psychology training. I asked my licensed counselor about Katie. Before I had a moment to express my reservations, the counselor was looking for one of Katie's books on her shelf that she says she shares with many clients. When I mentioned that Katie is not licensed or educated in mental health, the counselor realized she had never looked into Katie's background. Then my counselor said that she does use elements of Katie's approach in some of her work. I go to my counselor for EMDR, and she does a very good job of adhering to the Shapiro developed EMDR protocol, so I feel that sticking with this counselor for EMDR is sound.

However, I'm concerned about how Katie's approach is used in counseling especially because she herself is not a licensed counselor. I was wondering if anyone on this forum is more familiar or experienced with using The Work for reducing the stress of negative beliefs arising from trauma.

I'm curious because I want to analyze my negative beliefs about myself and am drawn to this method which seems promising and toxic at the same time. I feel muddled and less able to walk away from my interest in this inquiry than I usually can via mental self-protection. FYI: I had a very stressful encounter with Scientology when it was called Dianetics when I was a teenager, grew up on a fire and brimstone brand of Catholicism, and endured a wide and lengthy variety of abuse and neglect growing up that I came to understand as "the way things were". I'm trying to take the best and leave the rest regarding The Work, but I would love to hear another voice who has considered this pathway.

 

[dharmaBum]

Well, I haven't gotten much farther in my enquiry into the safety of The Work for trauma survivors. I haven't found any review of Katie's process by the APA or any kind of research-based evidence on the effectiveness of the strategies employed.

I was able to find one interview with Katie by an ex-rabbi named Marc Gafni which seemed to be an objectively critical and questioning analysis of the premise of The Work, but honestly as Gafni's reference point is from Kabbalah and I had to look up the definition to even know what that word meant, I was pretty far over my head in evaluating the arguments that ensued. And then there was the issue of Gafni being a confessed sexual offender against a child (20-30 years ago)- which is exactly the kind of trauma that got me here on this board in the first place.

So the only clearly questioning analysis of Katie came from a potential sexual predator disguised as a spiritual leader...

My gut reaction is that there is something subtly yet pervasively and seriously amiss with this concept/person/organization, yet I still struggle with being drawn to it. Perhaps it is (hopefully) one of my final stages of trauma re-enactment and I WILL trust my insight and I WILL come to an understanding about spirituality that is healthy for myself and my family.

I do have concerns about the process of The Work as it relates to parenting and children. I first came across this process several years ago in the guise of a parenting approach that purportedly helped you to free yourself and your child from inauthentic parental expectations such as, "My child shouldn't scream at me." The idea was that children should do everything they do and that parents must change their behavior in order to model appropriately and come into accordance with the reality of how children behave. The notion behind this approach was that the parent needed to reflect that belief onto his or her self and correct their own behavior, such as, "I shouldn't scream at my child." If they didn't think they were screaming at their child, then they were in total denial. And if they occasionally screamed at their child because they were triggered by some past harm (e.g., abusive parenting they experienced), it was because they were stuck blaming their parents and hadn't owned their own responsibility (as a child) in the situation. That just sent me into so much shame that I literally cried for days and didn't even understand why.

In my recent research I came across a testimonial from a parent who went to an intensive The Work workshop with her child. She said, gratefully, that her child voluntarily used the process to help resolve his hurt over his father not showing up for a scheduled visit. The ten year old boy was relieved to tell his mother that after going through the process of The Work on his own, he understood his father had not disappointed him, he had disappointed himself. What benefit is there to absolving a parent from the distress he or she causes their child?

I question and write about this topic because more than one entity is interested in developing The Work as a mass-marketed parenting strategy, people involved in and who perceive themselves from benefiting from The Work wish it to be taught to all children in public school and practiced every day, and Katie and other ~certified~ facilitators are engaged in practicing The Work with tens of thousands of people across the world.

If this were truly the process for ending humanity's suffering, why would I feel so fearful of it?

 

[dharmaBum]

I talked with my counselor about this again and she really urged to steer me away from even considering saying some of the things that The Work would turn-around related to trauma. It was odd- as I was explaining to her the examples of the turn arounds she started waving her hand back and forth in the stop motion and saying, "oh, no, no, no, no, no!" But at the same time, the director of student mental health at the University of Washington is a certified facilitator of The Work and has formally endorsed the system and integrates into his practice at the college and privately.

No answers, no resolution, no problem!

I'm trying to read a book by Daniel Siegel called Parenting from the Inside Out which is based on ~Interpersonal Neurobiology~ so hopefully that may help get my angry parenting reactions sorted out. Doing EMDR helps tremendously. If I could do it myself (as The Work is a self-implemented strategy)... At least I have 10+ more EMDR sessions authorized!

 

[dharmaBum]

I've been researching this topic in my "free" and not-so free time over the last two weeks and still to no avail in terms of getting research based information. Perhaps it is a good sign that no on in the PTSD forum is familiar with this method, since I have located many strong negative reviews of it online. Many opponents view it as a form of thought reform or simply have a strong, visceral, negative reaction that keeps them from looking deeper.

Byron Katie says that the approach is used in prison and veteran's clinics. Perhaps someone here is more familiar with the term Inquiry Based Stress Reduction? That's what Anil Coumar, the director of the University of Washington Student's Center for Mental Health is calling it. IBSR (registered trademark). I wrote a letter to the American Psychological Association trying to find out why there isn't more information about this process if it is being used to treat diagnosed mental health disorders:


To the APA Public Policy Division:
I have searched the American Psychology Association website and have been unable to find information about a directed process of self-inquiry that appears to be used in conjunction with or replacement of cognitive behavioral therapy by licensed mental health providers. The method is called The Work, developed by Byron Katie.

Recently I came across an article published by Anil Coumar and Ricardo Hidalgo of the University of Washington Student Mental Health Center describing how these two licensed mental health providers are using this untested method on vulnerable students at the State's expense: The Work of Byron Katie: A New Psychotherapy?

Coumar refers to The Work on his University of Washington biography as Inquiry Based Stress Reduction.

I thought that if such a treatment were effective enough to be used by licensed mental health providers alongside or instead of cognitive behavioral therapy that there would be articles and research in the APA database, but I found none. Does the APA have a position statement on the utilization of The Work and/or Inquiry Based Stress Reduction (as developed by Byron Katie) in licensed mental health care for diagnosed mental disorders? If no such position currently exists, what is the process for requesting that the APA investigate this topic as a matter of public policy and patient advocacy?

 

[dharmaBum]

Dr. Laura Markham is a Clinical Psychologist and Columbia University Ph.D. She is the only psychology credentialed professional who I have found that has made an attributed statement that is less than approving of Byron Katie's The Work and/or it's application toward trauma, child abuse, and neglect:

[www DOT ahaparenting.com/_bpost_1590/Become_a_more_inspired_parent_by_questioning_your_thoughts]
The article linked above is one of a series aimed at "Disarming the Inner Critic". A reader was concerned that the method was The Work in disguise and that it could be dangerous. Dr. Markham responded in the blog comment section.

She specifically addresses concerns about Byron Katie's use of The Work in potentially forcing psychological breakthroughs in a comment to a reader at the end of the article. For the benefit of future readers, I wanted to share these excerpts from Markham's comment:

"... I did not actually recommend Byron Katie's practice. Although I use similar wording for two of the questions (Can you prove that thought is true? Who would you be without it?) I very specifically do not recommend the next part of her process, which is about "turning it around." I think that part is designed to get people to take responsibility for their experience, which can be a useful exploration and can be empowering. However, it can also induce shame and guilt if it is forced on someone. In the case of trauma, as I mentioned, it can be a repeat victimization. So I would not recommend it to a lay audience without the support of an experienced therapist."

"I am not aware of any studies of either the Sedona Method or the Byron Katie method, but I urge you to distinguish between the basic questions she suggests, and her larger method that includes the turn-around. There is nothing wrong with her basic questions, in my view. There is something very wrong, and unsafe, about "forcing" someone to "make a psychological breakthrough" without adequate psychological support or under the pressure of "performing" in front of a group. "

I've saved this article (Become a more inspired parent by questioning your thoughts; dated March 18, 2010; Author Dr. Laura Markham) on my hard drive as I have noticed that online criticism of Byron Katie tends to disappear once attention has been brought to it.

 

[Nicole O.]

Hello there DharmaBum,

I have used The Work for a few years now and I have had similar bouts of PTSD and depression. I think some of the statements you are focusing on are not meant for you or anyone other than the person participating in the seminar. Also, The Work is supposed to start small and "petty" then after practice, people are able to work up to harder thoughts, and sufferings. Byron actually states in her books to never work on yourself until you have had practice, and to be kind to yourself. I think a lot of what she is trying to get across (at least for me) is that: It’s no one else’s job to like, love, cherish, or treat me well. It’s my job. If I’m living in someone else’s life asking "Why did or didn’t you do this or that?" Who’s living in mine? Who’s (noticing and) telling me I did good? Who’s telling me IM beautiful? ME. I have to be there for me. If I can’t treat myself right then who else is going to? I have to set the example of how I’m supposed to be treated. And I can’t wait for someone else to do the right thing.

I have noticed that me doing what I know is right, brings out positive reactions to my actions. I had problems with my dad and him not being there for me, and I was always waiting for him to step up to the plate. He never did. One day I questioned, why does he not want to be part of my life? After a lot of inquiry, I decided that if I want something done, I have to do it. THAT will make me feel better. At least knowing I did something, even if it didn't go how I would have liked would be better than not doing anything at all. Then I realized that I didn’t really want anything from him, I just wanted someone to care. And guess who did? Me ;)

Why doesn’t he want to be a part of my life? > Why doesn’t he want to be a part of HIS life? After all I am part of his life, whether he likes to admit it or not. Right?

A lot of what I have seen is that people tend to find the good in even bad things. My mother hurt me for example, Can I absolutely know that that is true? Well I can’t know if that was her intention. No. How do I react when in think that thought? I feel hurt, and slighted. Who would I be without that thought? I would be free from the shame that I was hurt and couldn’t do anything about it. I would be free from the feeling that I was a victim. And to turn it around: My mother hurt herself. 3 proofs: she doesn’t have a daughter in her life, her life is not full. She began to use drugs and get into dangerous relationships (further proving she was searching for something to make her life feel full). And finally she lost custody of my brother, her son. What good has come of all of that? I now know that I am strong enough to take care of myself and I don’t need her. If I don’t expect anything from her, and apology, her caring, her call on my birthday, then when she does, I can enjoy it MORE when she does. She too has gained from the whole of the experiences; she has realized her wrongs and has (hopefully) learned from her mistakes. I believe, all of the bad things are put here for us to learn from. I would not be as compassionate, or caring, if I had not had the experienced I did. And I would not have the skills or experiences to help people similar to me. And for that I am thankful to my perseverance through the traumas that were my life.

I think you might like to read her books, think of them as novels if you’d like. But at least give yourself the knowledge, that you didn’t let your fear of something get the better of you. If I may recommend something else, The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz is a very good book and philosophy as well. If you are looking towards this path of self-help and healing not through big religions, he is a good start. Take what you like and leave the rest like you were saying. I also noticed your SN it seems like you have found something that speaks to you. I am so happy for you. One last recommendation, Everyday Dharma was a nice exercise a day kind of book. I had a lot of fun with it and I think you might as well. Please let me know if this helped at all? I wish you all the best! <3

Cole

 

[dharmaBum]

Cole, I appreciate your reply and description of how you have used The Work in your life. I currently find that focusing on mindfulness, minus the inquiry-style of Byron Katie's approach, reduces stress enough for me to save most processing of trauma related emotions, memories, and thoughts for sessions with my licensed mental health counselor.

I'd be very happy to review controlled studies of The Work to learn how it might relate to the treatment of PTSD, anxiety, and/or depression. Are you aware of any references on this topic that you could direct me to?

I have found that there has been much study in support of Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), and have been using a meditation called The Wheel of Awareness, developed by Daniel Siegel, for ongoing mental health- still only using the elements that "feel" beneficial for me. For now, I'm guiding my choices using my own sense of safety as a gauge and continue to find myself uncomfortable with Byron Katie's process.

If anyone else reading along is interested, I've found Babette Rothschild's 8 Keys to Safe Trauma Recovery to be a useful guide in developing an awareness of the internalized cues that help me evaluate what steps/directions might help in my recovery and what steps/directions might lead to unecessary pain or retraumatization.

 

[Hashi]

I had an initially mesmerized reaction which suddenly became a PTSD triggered frightful reaction when I saw a video of Katie telling a young woman who had been overtly controlled by a domineering parent that she, as a child, made the choice to comply with her father's threatening requests. Katie went on to say that if she were being tortured, it would be her choice to comply with the threats- no terrorist could make her give in, if she did, it was her choice...

I'm trying to take the best and leave the rest regarding The Work, but I would love to hear another voice who has considered this pathway.

I don't know Katie Byron or The Work, although I just had a quick look on YouTube. To be honest, what you said (that I've quoted above) about choice seems unacceptable and distorted to me, but I have to be fair and say that I haven't seen the original and don't know the whole context.

I wanted to reply because I'm struck by how much doubt you seem to have. I wonder if the aspects that resonate with you can be found in another approach that doesn't cause you to question so much. Mindfulness and changing perception are at the heart of so many other approaches, I wonder if you've considered anything else which encompasses these?

It wouldn't bother me that someone isn't a trained counsellor or therapist as much as it would bother me to feel dubious about aspects of their approach. I've been helped by a number of things, and not all of them are put forward by people with a background in conventional therapy. All of them, however, have been things that resonated and felt right for me at that time. Not being completely on board with some small aspects is normal for me, but feeling so uncomfortable and concerned is something else.

I think what you said about using your own sense of safety as a gauge sounds like much the best way forward. Maybe you could take whatever things appeal to you about The Work and look for them in something else that feels safer and closer to what's best for you?

 

[Meadowsweet]

I've come across this name amongst spiritual people.

I'm afraid it seems to produce too much amateur psychology that lacks any real insight or understanding.

Also, this kind of method is something I've experienced as psychological abuse.

Perhaps it works when people's issues are very minor. If someone feel's they are the victim because they've had a fall out with a friend, then maybe it is useful.

But if something sells it's power with a mesmerizing way of speech, as a cure all. Then they lack any real wisdom worth listening to. Apart from being very good at making money.

It makes me a bit sick really.

 

[maddog]

If anyone else reading along is interested, I've found Babette Rothschild's 8 Keys to Safe Trauma Recovery to be a useful guide in developing an awareness of the internalized cues that help me evaluate what steps/directions might help in my recovery and what steps/directions might lead to unecessary pain or retraumatization.

I'm also reading the Rothschild book right now and agree in principle with her philosophy and strategies, though I do find some of her exercises to be somewhat simplistic, particularly when considered in the context of addressing complex trauma. I do respect her wisdom in this area, given that she herself is a survivor of complex trauma and is thus qualified to speak as to what worked and didn't work for her, but I actually find myself left with the impression that her strategies and exercises are better suited to the more advanced stages of therapy and the maintenance aspects of self awareness and self care during recovery.

Agree that the discussion of mindfulness and internal cues is relevant and worth noting, though I would again caution that particularly in regards to trauma therapy/processing, just because something feels bad or dangerous doesn't necessarily mean it should be avoided. Obviously, her belief (espoused in later chapters) is that it is actually generally not necessary (and may be highly detrimental) to go back and discuss the trauma in detail, and on this basis her advice to heed the mindfulness gauge that says that something may be too traumatic to be beneficial, would be consistent with her views.

I accept, as she does, that everyone is different and that a personalised path to recovery must be developed, but I am skeptical that most trauma sufferers, particularly at the early stages of intervention, are in a position to judge whether or not therapeutic interventions which feel distressing and vulnerable are actually beneficial or not.

I do acknowledge though that this is my own experience talking, as I know for a fact that avoiding discussion of my trauma on the basis that it felt too confronting and dangerous, would have been the key to ongoing denial and avoidance and would have been detrimental to me.

Sorry to have hijacked this thread, but I would be interested to hear others' views. I think that the whole field of self help for trauma work is a very interesting and controversial one which is fraught with possible pitfalls. While I believe that almost any method or approach has its benefits and uses, it disturbs me deeply to see any childhood abuse survivor advised that he/she had any responsibility for the abuse. In my view, this is absolutely never, ever ok and is a serious threat to the ongoing need to promote the realities of childhood abuse within a world in which it is already so deeply misunderstood and minimised.

Maddog

 

[dharmaBum]

I wrote this post a year and a half ago and I am grateful for the recent responses it has received as I have long felt alone in my confusion. My exposure to Byron Katie and the process of The Work triggered psychological decompensation, dissociation, and prolonged experiences of dysphoric ego-states related to attachment trauma I experienced which "floats to the surface" unconsciously during typical parenting interactions with my child. While it was happening, I had not the psycho-educational tools to understand my inner world and kept pressing myself fully into the triggering stimuli of The Work turn-arounds thinking that I would someday "get it" and experience the relief that so many testimonials at Byron Katie's website reference.

I looked toward a licensed mental health practitioner for help who specialized in using The Work only to find my basic questions about background would go unanswered. As I researched the provider I discovered their license had lapsed and ultimately, after a tumultuous number of months in a complaint process, that the psychology credential advertised was "not credible."

I still cannot read transcripts of The Work or other of Byron Katie's materials (and I have read through most of several of her books, including the early two that are out of print) without feeling great discomfort. It is not hard for me to say that I am too vulnerable for this process! It is a relief to realize it :) I recently found that in 2010 and 2011 three clinical trials of Inquiry Based Stress Reduction were proposed in Israel, and the two the dealt with cancer survivors excluded patients with severe mental diagnoses from participation. In a small way that validates my concern that The Work may not be appropriate/useful for every body in every situation, although that is fundamentally Byron Katie's claim.

I'm not sure what the live-link policy is here currently at PTSD Forum, but if readers search for Byron Katie PTSD, or Byron Katie Criticism via google or yahoo, or even read some of the thoughtful and detailed one & two star reviews at Amazon for Loving What Is you will find that I am not alone in my reaction. I didn't read any reviews or background before I embarked on The Work. I was literally drawn in over a period of hours while watching Byron Katie facilitate The Work online and reading the online materials.

I can definitely see how the process can benefit a trauma-free adult who believes that they will feel better when all sorts of external things and people change. However, for abuse and attachment-trauma survivors, we may have lived a lifetime of being told we were the problem when it literally was impossible for that to be true. A child does need to be loved, psychology and medical research supports this resoundingly. Our desire for love sustains our survival in this social species were are born into. Our desire for love is not, even in an infinitesimal way, responsible for abuse we experienced as dependent children.

I would love to continue the discussion about the role that fear plays in emotional growth and how we each decide when our sense of fear is helpful or hurtful for our future. Lets create a new thread for that.

 

[Meadowsweet]

I find that very interesting coming from someone who's tried it. I'm glad you shared it.