Why Can't People Empathise

[Subac]

I recently got back in touch with a friend. I left her in the past because when I was trying to talk about what was happening to me, she would respond in a way that made me feel ten times worse. We didn't leave on bad terms, I just had to get out for my sanity.

But I forgave her and found compassion in my heart, that she's not a bad person, she just didn't understand. And I figured that I'm quite bad at communicating what I feel too.

So now, I'm giving it another go. And it's gone ok so far. But recently the subject of one particular trauma and my mental health has come up. And I try so hard to explain, and she just can't seem to understand or empathise. And her responses are actually very hurtful and unhelpful.

But I go off and deal with my feelings by myself, and I'm constantly on edge trying not to show her how badly she is understanding. I know that would push her away. But it's extra pressure because it feels like I've got to take responsibility for my own feelings, as well as not upsetting hers.

Yet sometimes I listen to stuff people say, and it's like people don't want to try to understand. Maybe it's that they don't want to know that horrific things happen in this world, or maybe they don't want to believe that there is a mental state where a person has no sense of safety and security. I don't know the answers.

The feeling I get with my friend, is that she is uncomfortable, and her lack of empathy or compassion are more to do with not wanting to accept what's happened to me.

I wondered what others experiences or thoughts are?

 

[Iha]

I have come from a similar situation. I have been in a over 5 year relationship. I was not diagnosed with PTSD until this past November, however. So we have had many ups and downs and quite and adventure trying to get me help and figure out what exactly was wrong. We have broken up and gotten back together many times until that time.

But when I first found out what I had, he was very, very sympathetic. Until my 'episodes' came. I get very depressed and anxious and if I don't find a way to cope I 'explode'. I was always told to just snap out of it or calm down. It drove me crazy because I felt like he just did not understand.
When I was in a nice, stable mood, I would talk to him about what I felt. And I would always say, I wouldn't expect you to understand. Sadly, the only way non-sufferers will truly understand what we are going through is if they are sufferers, and I would not wish that on my worst enemy.
Instead I would send him links to interesting pages of symptoms and short reads. I actually just sent one to him on hyperviligiance, because he does not understand why I feel so guarded around people.
He will never truly understand 100%, but he is now very aware of the symptoms and tries to help as much as possible, although, he does break down and just kind of walk away or say something hurtful at times.
She is only human and will never fully understand. I would recommend having an open chat about it, and just show her info and symptoms. Let her know that you do not expect her to know exactly what you are going through, but what you have is very real and you need support, not someone to understand 100% what you are going through.

I know it is not easy. I wish I could just switch bodies with people for a mere minute so they know what it is like. Unfortunately, it is not that simple. I wish you the best.

 

[Safi]

I agree that it is probably impossible to understand unless one has experienced it and I think it's probably better to have realistic expectations when it comes to sharing.

I think a common reaction is for people to want to stop the feeling, pain or symptoms. The intention is good but the effect is unhelpful. It might be worthwhile discussing invalidation as I think that can be the crux of the problem with a lot of this.

I think a friend truly deeply accepting that they cannot fix it can go a long way. I also personally would never discuss any details with someone as I would not want to burden them with it or have it taint their life too. I keep that for therapy and places like here. Thats just my take on it though.

I agree with the poster above that it can be more helpful to discuss symptoms and use written information to help you get your point across.I haven't done much sharing at all but if I did that is the route I would take.

I think we have a responsibility to consider if someone is able to give us what we need before we share. And I think not understanding how someone without PTSD can not understand is a bit similar to someone not understanding PTSD. Neither of us can totally step into the others shoes. You can't imagine why anyone would not be able to understand and she can't fully understand.

 

[Subac]

Subac here,

I think if a person is exploding, it might be a self preservation act to walk away. With my friend, they are polite conversations, but it feels like I'm talking to someone who simply hears what she wants.

I don't need her to understand what it feels like, but I think there is a level of understanding that seems well explained by the literature on PTSD.

She asked why I couldn't let it go, and I explained technically about my emotions being detached from the experience and how I am in therapy to help me bring the parts of my mind together. I sent her a link to an article that I think puts it very well and quite simply. And she went on to explain to me how not letting go is harmful for me and to try and help me realise how me not letting go is hurting me.

I think I will probably detach that side of my life from the friendship. But I just don't know whether to carry on with it at all.

 

[Safi]

Some people have very little capacity for empathy at all and it sounds like she might be one of those. With struggles anyway. Maybe she has had an easy life or maybe this is the way she deals with anything difficult and so automatically thinks you should do the same.

I think it can also help to tell someone something if it is interfering with the relationship rather than asking for understanding if that makes sense. Then it is more about a boundary and needing that space of non judgement in the relationship. Especially from someone like your friend from what you describe here.


You are not hanging onto your experiences - you have a physiological reaction that means it isn't possible to without treatment and hard work.

For me I would not want to share anything with someone who doesn't have the capacity to listen to me.

 

[Mico]

Yet sometimes I listen to stuff people say, and it's like people don't want to try to understand.

Maybe it's that they've got problems of their own and you're not aware of them. Maybe they've got no reason to want to make the effort to understand.

I see a lot of pleas for understanding/empathy from sufferers, but rarely do they take the time to extend the same to others. It may be because they can't, but it doesn't make things easier for others. Your supposed understanding of your friend doesn't seem to actually go beyond an acknowledgment of her shortcomings. Why expect her empathy or understanding? Why do so many sufferers expect empathy or understanding? Other than those people/events directly responsible for your trauma, your friends, family and other relations are not responsible for your condition. Why dump it in everyone else's laps?

In the case of PTSD, it seems that only a truly traumatic PTSD-inducing experience (or a PhD with an emphasis on this sort of disorder) puts one in a position to truly understand and empathy, while possible, is not something we can accurately gauge in others. Knowing this, how can any sufferer expect genuine empathy or understanding from someone who doesn't "get it"? You might as well as a blind person to give you his opinion on the colour of a sunset.

 

[Subac]

Mico, (original poster here).

My friend also has a problem at the moment, and for the first 2/3 months of our new found relationship, I've been supporting her through a tough time. I don't understand what she's feeling and because I have my own problems, I don't want to make assumptions. So instead, I've offered her positive words of encouragement to help her keep enough strength to help her handle it in whatever way she finds. I can't do it for her. And she can't do it for me.

We have ended up speaking about PTSD because she asked how I was when I felt ill, and I said I felt as ill as I had years ago, when we were friends before. From that she chose to ask questions, which I was pleased about. But it isn't getting us anywhere.

Yet I'm able to understand that your sweeping generalisations and up front judgementalism of PTSD sufferers is probably due to your personal experience with a friend or family member. I understand that because (not despite of) having PTSD.

Because I'm aware that my view of others can be totally off because of past experience, I've found ways that help. So I go and bash out my feelings in a journal. And I know that if I do snap at others, I am in the wrong, and I take responsibility for that.

Perhaps you are not so far apart from a person with PTSD and can use some of the same compassion. But also, have some of the same responsibilities to learn how to manage your upset better than you have done here.

 

[Afag]

Yet I'm able to understand that your sweeping generalisations and up front judgementalism of PTSD sufferers is probably due to your personal experience with a friend or family member. I understand that because (not despite of) having PTSD.

Nope, just a matter of having watched this board for quite a while now. I cut my relationship with a sufferer short as soon as I found this site and got a sense of what I was in for. Life is long and difficult. No one owes us anything, regardless of how damaged we may be. Yes, compassion and empathy are lovely things and they are a part of what makes humans unique, but they are not something that we are owed. The only real right we have is to be free from harm or, in other words, just left alone.

Perhaps you are not so far apart from a person with PTSD and can use some of the same compassion. But also, have some of the same responsibilities to learn how to manage your upset better than you have done here.

I'm not following the gist of this part of your post. If you're upset, I agree. I'm not upest, however, and have nothing to manage.

 

[Safi]

In the case of PTSD, it seems that only a truly traumatic PTSD-inducing experience (or a PhD with an emphasis on this sort of disorder) puts one in a position to truly understand and empathy, while possible, is not something we can accurately gauge in others. Knowing this, how can any sufferer expect genuine empathy or understanding from someone who doesn't "get it"?

There is a difference between deeply understanding and empathising (I agree one can't in most situation when it comes to PTSD) and just being able to respect what someone says and have enough sympathy/empathy to give them the benefit of the doubt.

It doesn't seem to me that Subac tried to discuss all the grisly details of his/her experience and was rather just saying he was still unwell. It seems it is that which she could not accept without judgement if I have not misunderstood.

Why do so many sufferers expect empathy or understanding?

Hmmm... I think all human beings in relationships need some level of understanding and empathy.
The relationship you describe - not doing any harm and other than that, nothing - is certainly not what I would want with anyone. I don't discuss trauma with anyone but relationships of any type and depth are still founded on mutual rapport at least on some level.

You have no idea what those with PTSD's on this sites lives look like. I see many conversations all the time from those with PTSD that indicate they are the ones empathising and caring for their families and friends and are not the ones just taking. It does seem like you are generalising and looking at everything through your own experiences.

 

[Subac]

Nope, just a matter of having watched this board for quite a while now. I cut my relationship with a sufferer short as soon as I found this site and got a sense of what I was in for.

I'm not quite sure that you will find anything useful on a forum for people with PTSd and supporters of people with PTSD.

compassion and empathy are lovely things and they are a part of what makes humans unique, but they are not something that we are owed.

That's cool. But nobody on this thread has mentioned anything about being owed compassion. It is a thread for someone with PTSD (me) to understand what is going wrong with the recent conversation I've had with a friend.

I'm not following the gist of this part of your post. If you're upset, I agree. I'm not upest, however, and have nothing to manage.

You have displayed a prejudicial view of anybody with PTSD by making generalised negative statements that are unsubstantiated by anything. And you have chosen to do so on a forum where PTSD sufferers and their supporters come for advice and support that will hopefully help them get through the difficulties that the condition presents.

Many people here are in therapy and are working hard on their recovery. So in the PTSD section, we learn about things like negative thinking styles, and forum members will point them out to one another. And as a sufferer, I write threads like this, because I am looking for the understanding I need to help me to handle this situation in the best way i can.

It's not a rant at anybody, it is asking for support in making a decision I have to make. So your over-reaction and negative thinking styles stand out because they are out of context with the thread. So the gist of what I wrote was suggesting that you could find a healthier way of interacting by looking at why you perhaps think we are all the same, and seemingly quite monstrous.

Thanks for all the replies though, regarding the point of the thread, I wrote to my friend and said I enjoyed talking to her, but just not about me. And she wrote back making a lighthearted joke about one of my symptoms (being unsociable), and that was nice. So that's a common ground.

 

[Wufokek]

I echo the sentiments that someone who is neither a sufferer not a supporter who admits to cutting and running as soon as they found this board won't be finding much use here. You're neither a sufferer nor a supporter so I question why you feel that you can post in a forum specifically for sufferers and supporters without identifying yourself as neither right off the bat? It seems a little deceptive.

 

[Bade]

You're neither a sufferer nor a supporter so I question why you feel that you can post in a forum specifically for sufferers and supporters without identifying yourself as neither right off the bat? It seems a little deceptive.

I understand that your feelings may be hurt by my previous posts, but if you read them carefully you'll see that I was here because I was involved with someone who does have PTSD. I came here to educate myself on the disorder. I continue to come here to remind myself of why I do not want with to allow this person back into my life. I feel that other "supporters" should be aware that they do have the option of leaving despite the fact that they frequently overlook their right (freedom?) to consider that possibility.

My experience with PTSD, as the partner (I didn't sign on as a "suporter", as I had no idea what I was getting into), is that it is not something I would voluntarily sign on for again. The "sufferers" tend to inflict a lot of suffering on others and often make very little effort to understand their partners. If you don't want to read this, feel free to skip over my post, but one afternoon of reading the supporter threads will confirm what I'm saying.

Many of us who do not have PTSD have been through things that are just as horrific, if not more so, as those people who do have. For whatever reason, we just carry on. To assume you know what I've been through is presumptuous and a bit silly really. I understand that many of you are so buried in your own traumas that you don't see that everyone suffers eventually (some of us even more than some of you), but many of us eventually come to recognize that it's really quite unfair to dump our garbage in the laps of others.

Please don't try to drum me off the board, I've been here a while and I'm not going anywhere. Plus, it's very childish. If you post in an open forum, anonymously, you will get responses you don't like or agree with. It's just the way it is and, frankly, I think it's probably a good thing that both sufferers and supporters are occasionally reminded that, in the real world, many people don't want to deal your problems... and that they are perfectly justified in not wanting to.