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Why Can't People Empathise

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My intention in posting in this thread was solely to point out that it is unfair and unreasonable to expect others to care about our personal issues
I think you think that your self, that your cause was a good one. But your own bitterness showed to much, to make the good intention stand out really. (Maybe you're fooling your self too, so maybe you don't understand why you got so much reaction to your words, and maybe you actually see your self as a victim now in this thread and see no reason to why others got upset with you?
Everyone who comes into contact with PTSD--sufferer, supporter, unsuspecting friend, unwilling family member---suffers for it.
Is that so? How do you know that ALL people with PTSD always make others suffer because of their PTSD? (That's a generalization.) - A person who doesn't have PTSD can leave the person with PTSD; the person with PTSD can't "leave" their condition or the suffering it causes on a daily basis.

I don't deny that some people with PTSD end up hurting others, but using generalization like that doesn't really make a discussion in to a helpful discussion for anyone. It usually ends up being a conflict.. Did you want a conflict?
 
Edijo,
I just wanted to say one or two more thing here.

I really hope you are dealing with what I am assuming is the childhood trauma you experienced. I am a firm believer that trauma always has an effect. Hidden anger can come out in many ways and some of that can be depression and passive aggressive behaviours.

There are a couple of things in your posts that make me think the trauma is a relevant issue. The fact that you keep bringing up comparisons when noone was giving any less credence to the experiences and needs of the non PTSD party in a relationship is one. In fact throughout this thread the opposite has been evident - a concern for the other party being helped when they need support. The other factor is the whole "noone should care about anything one has experienced". I don't think that is any way a usual thought process and wonder if it is more than bitterness from your relationship. It makes me wonder if this is how you cope with your trauma and relationships.

I think some of the last comments are very astute and relevant. I would ask yourself why you felt you were being bullied when you never were and were just involved in an intense debate. Why you felt people repeating your words and sentiments in a more obvious form was somehow unacceptable. I think these are concerning thought processes and I wonder if you do this in other areas of your life and other relationships.

If this was just an opportunity to vent and express bitterness or anger then that is one thing but I am not entirely sure it is the big picture. I think this may be a sign of longer term patterns of thinking in your life and I hope if they are that you get the support you need to help them and build a healthy life and relationships.
 
Safi (edijo here),

While I appreciate your attempt at analysis (however flawed it may be), I think you may want to consider the following before you waste even more time "responding" to my posts:

1. This thread is not about me. It's about people not empathizing with suffers and the fact is, most people won't and don't. So whether you find my thoughts on the matter normal is totally irrelevant.

2. When you start telling folks they don't have a right to post here, you're being a bully. You've officially moved out of the "intense debate" zone and into nasty bullying territory. You have definitely been a bully, and I'm not someone who often ...if ever... feels bullied here or in real life.

3. Feigned interest or sympathy is a form of manipulation. I realize you've been through some things in your own life that may have impaired your ability to recognize some of these behaviors, but those of us who have been exposed to the disorder all quite well-versed in this sort of thing. I'm also well aware that you have absolutely no regard for my relationships and could care less about whether I have a healthy life, as you were the same person who rather aggressively "debated" whether I had any right to post at all on this board.

So, again, let's just knock the b.s. off, shall we?
 
Empathy is limited. This is one thing I have grown to understand. However empathy shouldn't be limited when it comes to family or a close friend. If it is then what kind of a friendship what kind of a relationship is it?

Sometimes people can only try to relate their own experiences to yours. I think to some extent we might all be guilty of this and maybe it's a human flaw. I think you can work to overcome and understand the shortcomings we sometimes have in not being able to relate to something outside of our experiences. We are all guilty of this to some extent. The antidote is to try to work on that. If someone in your life just isn't able to do that or willing to try then I don't know. That is a difficult situation and a far too common one.

I don't know what the answer is. Accept their limited understanding but often feel as if you're banging your head against a wall or not have them in your life?
 
Empathy is limited. This is one thing I have grown to understand. However empathy shouldn't be limited when it comes to family or a close friend. If it is then what kind of a friendship what kind of a relationship is it?

I don't know if everyone is thinking the same thing when the word empathy is used. I can't interpret things like the above because I don't know what exactly is meant by each poster when they say empathy - respect, support, effort, caring, tolerance, actually understanding, sharing the feelings, unconditional acceptance? Or something else?

Maybe the OP has abandoned this thread by now, but I think it needs clarification really for the discussion to be meaningful.
 
I agree that empathy means different things to different people.

When the OP explained more I don't think he was expecting empathy really and just a basic level of understanding or acceptance. For true empathy I think someone has to have had a similar experience. And by that I mean reactions as well as the original experience.

I don't need her to understand what it feels like, but I think there is a level of understanding that seems well explained by the literature on PTSD.

She asked why I couldn't let it go, and I explained technically about my emotions being detached from the experience and how I am in therapy to help me bring the parts of my mind together. I sent her a link to an article that I think puts it very well and quite simply. And she went on to explain to me how not letting go is harmful for me and to try and help me realise how me not letting go is hurting me.

I think I will probably detach that side of my life from the friendship. But I just don't know whether to carry on with it at all.

I agree that it is probably impossible to understand unless one has experienced it and I think it's probably better to have realistic expectations when it comes to sharing.
This is what I said and I think it's true. I think though that some people are particularly unable to empathise and unwilling to sympathise or have a feeling that they are right and try to push their view forward. It can be a form of saving behaviour. And then for me I don't share that side of myself with them.

Just my take on it.
 
Oh oh I know!

This is my take....

Well we all know how powerful denial can be, right? Like someone who hates and/or fears being something will bash others who are that way as a defense mechanism.

So a former supporter comes on here and says how horrible sufferers are for making everyone else suffer. But really, this person is suffering the effects of trauma herself. She is so terrified of being labeled as traumatized that she comes here and spreads her misplaced hatred for her ex.

It's kind of like an old friend of mine who showed her utter disgust for gay people. Turns out she was in denial as a few years later she came out as a lesbian.

Yeah, I can really see the parallel!

I must ask, is telling everyone that sufferers make everyone else suffer being particularly supportive? No, I don't think so. It merely spreads the myths about PTSD. We're abusive. We cheat. We are violent. And the list goes on.

It saddens me that someone was so hurt by a sufferer that she feels it necessary to "save" everyone who loves a sufferer by saying we make (make? Gee, such a strong word!) everyone else suffer. I hope this person can redirect her anger toward her ex where it belongs instead of feeling its her duty to spread the truth about how we force our suffering on everyone around us.
 
[My first post on this thread too.]

I have it slightly differently from most people on this forum, because I know what it's like from both sides (I'm a supporter and I have PTSD).

I also read an amount of prejudice into your postings - I'm sorry if that isn't there, or isn't your intention, but generalisations about a whole group of people can come across as little else.
At the same time I also wonder if you've dealt with your own trauma as well as you appear to think you have. While it won't cause PTSD for everybody, trauma takes a toll on everybody. Denying that fact can be part of the defence against it, and attacking those who freely admit they're traumatised can be a form of denial (as put much more eloquently by the above poster). You talk about bullying, but surely, you must have known that talking in the way you were was going to draw a bad reaction from some of the readers.

I have to admit that I can't see why you're posting to a forum for supporters and sufferers of PTSD, given that you aren't, in reality, either. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest you shouldn't be here - you may have conflicted emotions yourself about walking away - it just doesn't make sense to me.

I actually don't think it's unreasonable, or unfair to expect others to care about our personal issues. I think it would be unfair to expect a stranger on the street to - but not to expect it from a loved one or a friend. But I also wouldn't think it unfair or unreasonable for them to expect you to care about their personal issues (whether you have PTSD or not).

When my husband was diagnosed with PTSD, (I won't say 'got PTSD', because I think he's had it as long as I've known him), my initial reaction was to run in terror, after I read about what it was. After the shock wore off, I effectively rolled up my sleeves, buckled down and thought 'right, lets get through this'.
I'm not saying that this is any better a thing to do than walking away - that's a decision everybody has to make for themselves, and I'm not going to castigate anybody who does walk away. I chose not to. I probably had no idea at the time how hard it was going to be, but I kept with it. Yes, it hurt, yes, it was deeply, deeply upsetting, and yes, there were plenty of times that I wanted to leave, or throw him out the window! ;) But we got through things, he worked very very hard, and it's much better now.

It was probably easier for me than many, because despite having combat PTSD, the time when he was in too much pain to show me he cared came in short bursts, rather than prolonged spells.

On the question of 'do sufferers make their loved ones suffer' - well, yes, in a way they do, and it's unavoidable, because their loved ones will have a very hard time dealing with the pain they're seeing, and the reactions they're faced with. Supporters also tend to get less acknowledgement from the world at large - I know I encountered a lot of 'he's ill, what's your excuse' attitudes when things got rough (I still do). But I think that sufferers from other illnesses cause their loved ones to suffer - if you get cancer, or dementia, or motor neurone disease, you can bet your loved ones are going to go through hell. Does the fact that it's a mental illness / injury make it somehow different??


In answer to the question of 'why don't people empathise / understand'...
I think that people can't empathise unless they've been through something similar - I think with PTSD that means not just having the initial trauma, but the reaction to it, too.
As to understanding, I think that until you come into contact with it, PTSD is still fairly unknown. People may have heard the term, seen it on the news, etc, but think of it as being like depression (not to belittle depression, which can be life threatening in itself). People don't realise that it's depression and a dozen other things all rolled up in one neat package. Or that it's mostly life long. Or that the most seemingly random things can trigger it.

When hub first became unwell, the most helpful thing I read was a piece on (I think, it was years ago) the Combat Stress website, saying that as a partner, you shouldn't tell the sufferer that you understand what they're going through, because unless you had PTSD yourself, you couldn't possibly. I was always very careful to make that distinction. As it turned out, having now been diagnose with PTSD myself (unrelated to his and going back to childhood) I really did understand what he was going through. A friend thinks that may have made it easier for me to not take offence, or not take it to heart when he was very poorly, and pushing me away, trying to force me to leave him, etc, but to understand that it was coming from his pain, not his deliberate intent to hurt me.

I also think that many people genuinely do think they understand. I think they think they know what you're going through, and just don't realise that they are almost completely unaware of it. Obviously, you can't go around with a manual for everybody around you to read, so that's something that we as sufferers have to learn to deal with, and maybe not take offence at, in the way that we hope those around us won't take offence at some of our reactions.

Mind you, I'm quite open and honest about both of our illnesses. A bit more guarded with hub, because he's a bit more careful about who knows, but about myself, I prefer to be open about it because it just makes things simpler. It also makes it easier to explain things to people, and to apologise when I stuff up and get shouty or walk away if they know in advance...
 
I have to admit that I can't see why you're posting to a forum for supporters and sufferers of PTSD, given that you aren't, in reality, either.

I'm no longer a supporter, but I do feel that having been one, I can answer the original poster's questions. You're clearly a grand soul and that's great, but the fact is most people in the world will not put up with the kind of difficulties that PTSD creates if given a choice. Clearly, you're entitled to disagree, but I would suggest you take a look at some of the other PTSD boards/forums and consider the number of relationships PTSD sufferers plow through (you don't even have to visit the supporter pages, there are plenty of other forums where you'll find sufferers bemoaning the fact that they run people who care about them off) before assuming I'm wrong.

I must ask, is telling everyone that sufferers make everyone else suffer being particularly supportive? No, I don't think so. It merely spreads the myths about PTSD. We're abusive. We cheat. We are violent. And the list goes on.

1. I'm not interested in being supportive. I answered a post honestly, that's all. You don't like it, too bad. Quit trying to make more of what's been said than actually has been.

2. At no point were any of the other things in your post said by me. My former partner did not cheat, was not violent, and isn't abusive. Perhaps you're projecting a bit here. Maybe these are issues for you (perhaps you've been accused of these things?), but they don't have any bearing on why I left my relationship.
 
While I do feel you are being unnecessarily argumentative, I do understand how you seem to feel. I worked with my "sufferer". Of course in the workplace you try to put your best forward. Fake it till ya make it. So when we started to grow close as friends, and I started to feel the reality of ptsd behavior, I felt very confused and betrayed. It is not that I could not have handled ptsd, but I already cared before I knew what I was walking into. And while I don't feel like you do about being supportive, I certainly understand the bitterness and feeling deceived. I bought the fake, the workplace version of trying to function and hide symptoms without anyone knowing. I understand your anger at the lack of communication and honesty about what you were getting into. I'm not like you, I want to understand and be supportive, want to stay in my "sufferer's" life. But I totally get the feeling of being suckered in. And then being hurt and confused.
 
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