Structural Dissociation?

[shimmerz]

I don't even know if this post is going to make sense. I have stopped posting on the board. I am making mistakes, reading things that aren't there, not making sense. There is a completely different tone to my posts and I don't like it. I feel the phrase ringing in my head 'do no harm' and I am not certain I can uphold that belief right now. So I will say nothing.

Incoherent, crying in waves for days. This is a new part. It feels like grief...so much grief. Too much grief. She is oscillating with hopelessness. That shows as lethargy. Not freezing. I have no recollection of ever having felt this before. It is consuming. I am not sure if this is situational or what but it feels bigger than that.

I think it feels like my life is no different now than it was then. Ostracized from every family I have ever been in, all 20+ of them. Where does she belong in this world? Where does she go? When she attempts to think about integrating into society again she laughs. Nobody will accept her. She is completely unlovable. So unlikable. I notice she flip flops between calling herself 'I' and 'she'. She is the one that has given up and is attempting to talk 'I' into giving up. What is the point of all of this if she is exactly where she was when this mess started?

I stopped taking the clonazepam 2 days ago. That is when this feeling started, when I started taking it. It was almost as if, with the pills relieving the anxiety, there was this huge pool of grief underneath that I had yet to uncover until now. Because my dissociative behaviour has gone, my triggers gone, there is nothing to act as a barrier against the grief. It is relentless. It feels cruel. It almost feels like she believes she deserves it. 'Wallow in it because this is who you really are'. I get the sense that when these parts come up, they attempt to convince us that they are our SELVES. The danger is in buying into that belief. I think this feels so overwhelming because I am believing her. Now I am struggling with knowing what to do about the meds. Do I take the clonazepam again or will that make this worse? Did the anxiety bury the grief? Do I take something for grief instead? What is under the grief? When do I get to the good in me? Is there good in me?

I normally can will myself to bring a more optimistic part forward and I have been trying, but this one is so strong. I try to move my body in such a way that overcomes this feeling. I know the body is so important in this. I try to stand with more power. There is none though. There is no power in grief. I am pathetic and she tells me that every opportunity she gets.

So many tears, but not wash away, healing tears. An endless pool of grief. She is afraid of contaminating others. Yesterday she wanted to run. To Perth, Ontario where she used to visit her Aunt. Her Aunt is dead now. She gave me brief glimpses of what would happen to her when we run and she wants that for us. There is just enough in me right now to not act on it. The irony is not lost to me that the catatonia actually saved me from acting out on this feeling. The thing that I hated the most - the freezing like a stone - was the very thing that protected me. That part is gone/integrated, the anxious part of me has been eased. But now what to do with this part that, because the others are dealt with, has free reign over me with none of the 'safeties' in place?

Tears have stopped and feeling a bit better now. Almost like explaining it clarifies things for me just enough. I can feel my 'planning' self come back just a little. What can be my plan for the day to help keep me more grounded? What can I have my body do to keep it in my more powerful self? The core of this grief (now that I can think) seems to be about grieving for a life that has never been my own. I now have choices to make. How to make it my own? I am lost in that. I have truly, no idea. No sense of where to start. It is so overwhelming. If I acknowledge that grief self I have to own up to the fact that I have lost 50+ years of life. Gone. Can't go back. Can't change it. Can't bear that thought. If I look forward, I can't see a much brighter future. Certainly not with the grief self running the show. *heavy sigh* Onwards. For those of you who PM me, I may be quiet for a bit. I thank you so much for your kindnesses.

.

 

[Ronin]

@shimmerz, that sounds like a lot of negative self talk there... and also not true. While it may be true you didn't belong to 20 families... it also may be true they weren't right or good or nurturing for you, belonging would have been an illusion, and finding the 21st (or 30st! or 55th!) that is a good family for you is a goal. (And maybe even that isn't - family is a concept, often overrated to press people to conform.)

You wrote an incredibly open hearted post about feeling pathetic. Pathetic people don't do that, being sincere like you've just been. Strong and determined and honest and nice people do that.

You don't have to have all the answers (or any!) right now. They will come. What you need to do is take care of yourself to the best of your ability, be kind with yourself, give yourself time to get through it, and not give up on healing just because things are hard. The sense & clarity will come along, all in a good time.

 

[Hope4Now]

I will try to write a short response so as not to overwhelm. But I'm awful at short responses. So don't feel compelled to read all.

It's so good that you wrote this post and that it is helping to sort things just a little...that's why I write in a journal...when one writes, one is forced to process one thing at a time and it can help quiet the overwhelm a little.

I think it feels like my life is no different now than it was then. Ostracized from every family I have ever been in, all 20+ of them. Where does she belong in this world? Where does she go? When she attempts to think about integrating into society again she laughs. Nobody will accept her. She is completely unlovable. So unlikable. I notice she flip flops between calling herself 'I' and 'she'. She is the one that has given up and is attempting to talk 'I' into giving up. What is the point of all of this if she is exactly where she was when this mess started?

My therapist calls what's happening to you "flooding" or "blending." It happens when a part thinks it is you and sort of takes over to some extent. It sounds as if you're doing what you should be doing...grounding, talking to your parts, etc. What you describe above, however, sounds like this child part is holding a belief about herself that someone else put on her. I have one like this too. I don't have any solutions because I'm in the middle of working on it now, but I do know that part of the work is talking to this part from a place of SELF (with caring and compassion) as opposed to from other parts (which might be saying things like "You can't handle this," or "Get yourself together, what's wrong with you."

I stopped taking the clonazepam 2 days ago. That is when this feeling started, when I started taking it. It was almost as if, with the pills relieving the anxiety, there was this huge pool of grief underneath that I had yet to uncover until now.

This has happened to me to some extent with Prozac. It may be that your dose was started too high. I started on microdoses so my parts could get used to the med and know that it was intended to help me and them, and not shut them down. I worked up to a standard dose over a period of around 2 or 2 1/5 months.

I try to stand with more power. There is none though. There is no power in grief. I am pathetic and she tells me that every opportunity she gets.

Your parts are getting really blended up. Your SELF has natural power and strength and compassion and creativity--you don't have to talk it into having it--it's just naturally there. Your parts are covering it all over. Stand big and gently. Move in space and ground yourself in the present. There is profound healing power in grief if we are not afraid to feel. Some of my parts are afraid to feel it, so fight it and I panic about the overwhelm. I wonder if you have a part or parts like this too...Then when you do start to feel it, another part comes in and says you're pathetic, or she's pathetic.

She is afraid of contaminating others. Yesterday she wanted to run.

Yes, she is holding so much...not just the grief, but also the belief that she is a contaminant. Poor child. Those are terrible things that some other(s) in her life put upon her.

If I acknowledge that grief self I have to own up to the fact that I have lost 50+ years of life. Gone. Can't go back. Can't change it. Can't bear that thought.

I know. I skitter away from it always too.
Every single book I've read about trauma healing says that it cannot happen until we allow ourselves to grieve for our lives. :grumpy::wtf::yuck::banghead::arghh;:bag:

I'm sending you lovingkindness energy, dear @shimmerz. Don't forget you're not alone on this path, even though so many of your parts feel they are.

 

[Ronin]

Yeah, also second thoughts after reading Hope's answer - pathetic is temporary. We're allowed to be pathetic time a time. There may even be a funny story about seemingly unbearable now once this time rolls over.

 

[Valentino]

Grief can be so difficult to talk about, in modern society it's quite taboo and dangerous to share it too openly. For most of the general public, it's only when loved ones die, that they're forced to face grief. But society and religions often cover it all up with 'band aid like' euphemisms.

So it's quite reasonable that exploring the deep dark depression parts of grief can feel overwhelming, scary, heavy, confusing, disempowering, exhausting, etc.

But that's what grief is supposed to feel like, and that's why most people avoid it at all costs.

But the reason why grief hurts so much, is simply because you allowed yourself to love deeply towards something that you've now lost. Love and care is the energy behind grief. Acknowledging the losses hurts so much, because you loved so much. Loving is part of being human and living life fully, and the more we can honor grief, the more the capacity to live, love, and embrace life more fully.

Did the anxiety bury the grief? Do I take something for grief instead? What is under the grief? When do I get to the good in me? Is there good in me?

Acceptance, transformation, and discovering meaning lies under the grief.

There's Elisabeth Kubler-Ross' 5 stages of mourning and grief model, which seems to work well with most people, me as an Aspie was never able to do much denial, and holding onto anger or bargaining didn't make much logical sense, so maybe that's why I've gotten good at exploring the depression and acceptance stages. This is from another's Aspie experience of grief:

Most of the results talked about Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’s five stages of mourning and grief. According to the web, these stages are universal: experienced by all people everywhere in the world. They can be experienced in any order and with varying levels of intensity. People grieving can go back and forth between stages as they work through them. Acceptance, the final stage, can take years to reach and some people may never reach it. Here are the five stages of grief:

1. Denial (+ Shock/Disbelief, Isolation)
2. Anger
3. Bargaining (+ Guilt)
4. Depression
5. Acceptance (+ Hope)

I had no denial. My niece’s sudden aneurysm left her brain dead. Connected to a respirator and different monitors, she appeared to be sleeping. The respirator made her lungs expand and collapse – it gave the impression she was breathing. Even though a piece of my heart wanted to believe that she was still “in there”, my brain knew she was gone. It would not allow my heart to fantasize that some day she might come back to us. She was gone. It was logical. There was no denying it.

I did not experience anger either. I watched as others felt angry at varying things, but I could not feel anger. Angry at what? There was nothing to be angry at. No one would have ever thought “aneurysm” in an otherwise healthy sixteen year old girl. To me, there was nothing/no one to be angry with.

I watched her mother and father bargaining. I listened to the “if only” statements. “If only we had..” “If only she had…” I could not feel the need to bargain because my logical brain understands we CANNOT go back in time. There is no do-over. There is nothing we could have done and there is nothing we can do now that will ever bring her back to us. There are no bargains to be made. All the “What ifs” in the world cannot change where we are now.

Depression, however, hit me like a brick wall. Overwhelming sadness consumed me. I felt immobilized by my sadness. Immobilized and confused. I cried for my niece. For the loss of her. For the loss of all of the things she will never do. For the future she will never have. For the memories she will never make. My heart broke for her.

I felt like every ounce of my energy was poured into processing the depression I was feeling. I am not in any way minimizing my family’s grief, but at times I wished I could feel denial, bargaining, or anger – anything but this crushing depression and sadness. In my head I imagined we were all given a “pitcher” of grief. Where they had four glasses to pour their grief into, I only had the one and I couldn’t stop it from overflowing.
...
This loop of brain vs. heart vs. brain vs. heart continued because I could not stop hurting no matter how logically I tried to process it.

--- full post: [DLMURL]http://pensiveaspie.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/when-logic-fails-aspergers-and-grief-part-two-of-two/[/DLMURL]

The thing that I hated the most - the freezing like a stone - was the very thing that protected me.

I wonder if this freezing was part of stage 1 shock/denial/disbelief numbing? It was a protection mechanism to help you survive by limiting the flood of depression energies. Ironically, ANPs end up resisting these other parts which on the surface seem to be creating suffering, but in the bigger picture these parts are protective and adaptive. This new grief part likely has helpful adaptive motives, but it's hard to see or trust when in the midst of deep depression.

What can I have my body do to keep it in my more powerful self?

Depression can be described as psychological or emotional exhaustion. It's a state that is naturally disempowering, it pretty much 'brings you to your knees', forcing you to stop, reflect and look deep within.

This is an excerpt from a nice write-up breaking down many aspects of depression:

When depression is deep, it obliterates our ability to respond emotionally and intelligently. Our capacity to experience joy, beauty or even a clear sadness is diminished or lost. When we are depressed, we tend to equate our mood with the quality of our lives not just the quality of a particular moment or time in our lives. Intellectually, we may know that our lives hold many riches, but emotionally our lives feel bankrupt, hopeless or meaningless. Our understanding of depression will influence our response to it.
...
In summary:
� depression is a mood that tends to be an episodic part of life.
� It is most usefully understood as psychological exhaustion.
� The exhaustion is reflected in our emotional responses, in our thinking, and in the energy and clarity that we bring to action.
� These emotional, cognitive and behavioral patterns need to be understood and placed in a larger context.
� Underlying the exhaustion is often a pattern of unresolved emotional needs, unresolved psychological conflicts (conscious and/or unconscious), and/or lingering spiritual and existential dilemmas.
� Resolution requires openness to our private experiences, an examination of our conscious beliefs, and an increased understanding of unconscious processes.
� The dialogue between conscious and unconscious processes promotes an evolving sense of understanding and of personal meaning.
� Personal meaning changes over our lifetimes.

Depression is an uninvited guest which tells us that our conscious understanding of our selves and others requires attention and change.

--- source & full post: Dead Link Removed

Here's Sobonfu Some who shares grief wisdom from perspective of ancient African tribal wisdom and rituals:

Surrendering to your sorrow has the power to heal the deepest of wounds
...
For my people, the Dagara tribe of Burkina Faso in West Africa, we see that in life it is necessary to grieve those things that no longer serve us and let them go. When I grieve I am surrounded by family reassuring me that the grieving is worthwhile and I can grieve as much as I want. We experience conflicts, loved ones die or suffer, dreams never manifest, illnesses occur, relationships break up, and there are unexpected natural disasters. It is so important to have ways to release those pains to keep clearing ourselves. Hanging on to old pain just makes it grow until it smothers our creativity, our joy, and our ability to connect with others. It may even kill us. Often my community uses grief rituals to heal wounds and open us to spirit’s call.
...
There is a price in not expressing one’s grief. Imagine if you never washed your clothes or showered. The toxins that your body produces just from everyday living would build up and get really stinky. That is how it is with emotional and spiritual toxins too. What we must remember is that, the more these toxins rise the more we have a tendency to blame or hurt others around us. People never harm others out of joy, they give pain to others because they too are hurt or in pain.

There can be so much grief that we grow numb from the unfelt and unexpressed emotions that we carry in our bodies. Unexpressed hurt and pain injures our souls, and can be linked directly to our general sense of spiritual drought and emotional confusion, not to mention the many illnesses we experience in our lives. Many of us suffer from medical conditions that are grief-related. Grieving, whether in private or in community, has many scientifically proven health benefits, from lowering blood pressure and risks of heart attacks to simply having a better quality of life.

We need to begin to see grief not as foreign entity and not as an alien to be held down or caged up, but as a natural process. As the recipient of someone’s grief we also must understand that it is OK for someone to express pain.

-- source & full post - http://www.sobonfu.com/articles/writings-by-sobonfu-2/embracing-grief/

Excerpt from Tricycle magazine's post of "Buddhist Teachers Respond to the Newtown Tragedy":

Grief may be the greatest healing experience of a lifetime. It’s certainly one of the hottest fires we will encounter. It penetrates the hard layers of our self-protection, plunges us into the sadness, fear, and despair we have tried so hard to avoid. Grief is unpredictable, uncontrollable. There are no shortcuts around grief. The only way is right through the middle. Some say time heals, but that’s a half-truth. Time alone doesn’t heal. Time and attention heal.

In grief we access parts of ourselves that were somehow unavailable to us in the past. With awareness, the journey through grief becomes a path to wholeness. Grief can lead us to a profound understanding that reaches beyond our individual loss. It opens us to the most essential truth of our lives: the truth of impermanence, the causes of suffering, and the illusion of separateness. When we meet these experiences with mercy and awareness, we begin to appreciate that we are more than the grief. We are what the grief is moving through. In the end, we may still fear death, but we don’t fear living nearly as much. In surrendering to our grief, we have learned to give ourselves more fully to life.
--- Frank Ostaseski is the founder of Zen Hospice Project in San Francisco, the first Buddhist hospice in America.
source link: Link Removed

I really like Stephen Jenkinson's teachings, he's been at the deathbed of over 1000 people and incorporates a lot of ancient tribal wisdom and rituals. A bit abstract to me at times, but deep pointers:

"Grief is not a feeling, it’s not how you feel, it’s what you do, grief is a skill and the twin of grief as a skill of life is the skill of being able to praise or love life.
which means wherever you find one authentically done, the other is very close at hand grief and the praise of life, side by side. ... The honored guests, room at the head table, and they’re toasting you grief and the ability to love life, they’re clinking their glasses, and toasting the living."
-- Griefwalker documentary movie quote by Stephen Jenkinson
full movie link: http://www.nfb.ca/film/griefwalker

Here's an audio interview "Way of Grief" Stephen Jenkinson:

 

[Eleanor]

If I acknowledge that grief self I have to own up to the fact that I have lost 50+ years of life. Gone. Can't go back. Can't change it. Can't bear that thought.

Not lost. Really. Not spent in ways you would have preferred. But not lost. You have not lost time. You cannot lose time. Time passes as it will. Our experiences are not lost. They may not be what we want. We may not want to have had the experiences we did (understatement!!!) But they are, for better or worse, our experiences. Unique. Valuable. We make futures out of them.

Grief always feels timeless and bottomless to me. "Pain has an element of blank... that cannot recollect"

Dear Shimmerz. If anything needs forgiving, your forgiven from here. (((((((@shimmerz)))))))))

 

[Eleanor]

WOW Valentino... and how incredibly timely.... One of our kitties is in her last days (she lives with my ex) and my daughter is going to grieve, and ... I certainly don't know how much. So this gives me a lot to work with!!! She tends to dive in and wallow .... for a long time. Often until bedtime, and then sleeping resets her. I'd like to help her get a little more... perspective? something...

 

[Hope4Now]

How are you doing today, @Eleanor?

One of our kitties is in her last days

:cry: I'm so sorry. This is SO hard. Most especially for children. Both our "actual" children, and our inner children.

:hug: to you.

 

[Hope4Now]

Here's Sobonfu Some

@Valentino, I loved reading this. thank you.

 

[Eleanor]

We are doing ok today. My ex is not sure when to "make the call". It is hard when a kitty has good and bad days.

I've just listened to the Stephen Jenkinson interview. WOW. EVERYBODY NEEDS TO LISTEN TO THIS!!!! It is a lot to think about. A whole different take on grief. It is about grief as integration. The documentary is on his website www.orphanwisdom.com and I'm going to make time to watch it.

I've always been puzzled by grief. Perhaps because the paradigm case of grief in my culture is when someone dies. And the first person in my life who died was my great grandmother. Every time I went to visit her (I was born when she was... more than 85 I think) she would end the visit by saying "I may not be here the next time you come. And that will be ok. Because I will have gone home to my mother and my husband and a lot of other people I miss. So don't be sad for me. I'll be fine. But if you want to cry because you miss me, that's ok, and I'll know you miss me. And someday you'll come too and we'll be with each other again." So at least once a year until I was... 14? I heard that. And then she died. And I knew just what to do. THAT death wasn't confusing at all. Death didn't turn out to be very confusing for me. My culture is very matter of fact about death. "Everyone dies of something." is a kind of truism among people of a certain age. But what has been confusing around death for me is ... forgetting that someone is gone, expecting.... and then, oops. That grief is NOT JUST ABOUT actual loss... that is new.

Maybe the grief of inners is more like the grief of the mother at the train station. The grief upon return.

Maybe @shimmerz all the grief you are feeling is a mixture of griefs, and some is grief upon returning, of all the parts for each other(s). ???

And the flip side of grief being the ability to praise and love... Those are things I have trouble with.... and maybe this is a piece of the puzzle why.

Thank you again @Valentino, really MOST helpful and informative.

And that includes the bit on depression... Which I need to just.. like, memorize or something.

 

[shimmerz]

I am afraid to even post for fear of saying 'something wrong', but am doing it anyway. I thank you so much Hope, Eleanor, kaia, Valentino, Sun and Changeling, for all of your encouragement. I haven't gone into a crying fit(s) today and the words of encouragement, the videos and articles Valentino, the tips from your therapist Hope, all of these things have given me things to focus on. I have to be honest, I have not been depressed (or acknowledged such) EVER, nor have I felt grief. It seems when these things hit me, they hit large. Go big or go home. With each of these 'issues' lately it has gotten my attention in such a way that it can't be ignored or pushed down. 'Ahhhhh....so this is what (x-emotion) feels like. This sucks.'

Eleanor, I am so very sorry that your kitty, your husband, and yourself are going through such difficult times right now. I think what matters the most is your intention to relieve your kitty's suffering and it is obvious you are both doing just that. What a very lucky kitty to have people who are watching out for her and are willing to go through pain themselves, in order to ease her through these oh, so difficult times. Hugs to you all three. The fact that you are spending time helping me with my messed-up-ed-ness is a strong testament to what a lovely soul you are. Thank you.

Kaia, thank you so much for being so encouraging and kind and reminding me that humour may well come, which it did, with Hope's 'short' post that she stated wouldn't have a hope of being short. lol. I don't care about short, and wasn't overwhelmed. I so appreciate your having taken the time to post, Hope and appreciate your reminding me, Kaia, that better times are ahead when most assuredly my head is not allowing me to even focus on that at this time.

With you all in spirit.

 

[sun seeker]

((((@shimmerz))))
So much love, hope and light to you. You will make it. I know you will. Keep knowing we believe in you.