Structural Dissociation?

[Hope4Now]

I am afraid to even post for fear of saying 'something wrong', but am doing it anyway.

Yay! Go @shimmerz! I'm so glad you came here and wrote. You said nothing wrong at all. And even if you had, that would be okay too, you know. We know you some. We care about you. We would still care about you if you said something "wrong." This is a safe space, you know. That's what safe means--being able to take risks and still be cared about. Was posting okay for your parts? :hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug: (That's 8, and 8 turned on its side is infinity...a little like this emoticon...so an infinity of hugs to you, friend. As many as you need. As many as you want. Namaste.

 

[Eleanor]

@shimmerz, maybe we should think of the pain of grief as an analogue to labor pains. They are necessary to birth the new "me" in the world that is NOW. This is easy to conceptualize when we lose someone important. "Who will I be without.... (loved one)? How will I go on?" And yet, we do go on, and we are richer for having had and been and done what we have.

You are such a special person, and hope that someday soon you can get to really ENJOY being the wonderful person you are. Keep paying attention to all the emotion that comes up, and write it out here. Writing it out, saying it out loud, I don't understand WHY these things help, I only know that they DO help. And that this is a great community to learn to be a better human being in.

 

[Hope4Now]

:woot: oops, one more thing, @shimmerz. Thinking about humor and pain. I can't remember if I ever asked you if you'd read Ann Lamott? She has a bazillion books out. I particularly liked the one called Grace (Eventually). She's sort-of religious which can turn some people off completely (and almost did me...but I'm glad I kept reading). She is a gift of a human being whose wisdom and humor has been very healing for me at times. She's a person who is a complete mess and a complete wonder all wrapped up in humility and humor and love and real-ness. She has a blog on facebook that is well worth the time if you cannot get hold of any of her books. You have to dig through a little though. https://www.facebook.com/AnneLamott
Also here's an interview with her and Kelly Corrigan on Foreward. Called Forgiveness, Compassion, and Embracing Our Messy Selves

 

[Valentino]

I suspect that unresolved or stuck grief is a very big part of PTSD symptoms. I have a theory that PTSD might simply be the grieving process getting stuck.

PTSD - stands for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, which literally translated can mean 'dysfunctional state' (Disorder) that happens 'after'(post) an 'overwhelming injury' (traumatic) and the 'body's response to stressor/stimulus' (stress).

I like to describe trauma as an experience that overwhelms psychological coping strategies and defense mechanisms.

So, let's consider grief as a natural adaptive process. The purpose of grief is a response to a loss or losses, the losses signify: stories, attachments, coping strategies, identification, hopes, dreams, behavioral patterns, habits, roles, personas (ANP & EPs?), positions, security, etc. These various losses need to be recognized as ended, dead, no longer functional, etc.; and essentially stored in the past.

So grief is the natural way to process a loss, recognize it, and then say goodbye and store it into past memory. Also there's an integration aspect of learning, evolving, and transforming from past losses and suffering, and often times turning suffering and loss into meaning and purpose.

Flashbacks are visceral experiences of reliving past traumatic memories. A common response is to avoid flashbacks or avoid situations that would trigger potential flashbacks. What if flashbacks are the body's way to revisit past experiences one last time, before officially mourning with honor, remembrance, and saying goodbye?

Imagine normal mourning rituals that happen after a death, or funerals that happen after a big community loss. There is a gathering of community together, and they spend time remembering the person who's died. Often using photos, videos, writings, sharing stories, looking at the embalmed corpse, etc. These are ways to vividly remember the person, which helps to honor their life but also to say goodbye and put that memory into the past.

Another adaptive aspect of grief, is that it's more about the survivors and not the departed. It's a ritual and process that helps and forces the survivors to embrace the future, and say goodbye to the past (hopes, dreams, attachments, identity). This is highly adaptive because this keeps us in sync with reality as it is now, and also best prepares us for the future. Without a healthy grieving process, people can easily get stuck in the past, living in a state of limbo, holding onto dead memories, and unable to live in the present or think for the future.

I wish I could better describe all the multi-faceted amazing aspects of grief. It does have an ineffable (too great or extreme to be described in words) quality to it. It isn't all deep, dark, and depressing, but at first, that is what most people notice about it. So I don't want to discount the gravity, depth, and seriousness of genuine grief. However there is an amazing preciousness, vibrancy, pure life energy, creative edge, speechless awe inspiring quality to grief, especially being around death. Part of the experience really matches well with the term sweet surrender, there is an ineffable awe/inspiring sweetness and power that contrasts the inherent weakness with surrender. Maybe this could be a small taste of the raw divine energy of creation, front row seats to self-transformation?

Anyway, I do totally honor and respect the grief that everyone here is going through. I probably like talking about and exploring it, because I miss that edgy underlying charge and lightness that came with past griefs. And society offers so few opportunities to really viscerally share about it.

 

[shimmerz]

Thank you so much Valentino to reaching out so. It really does touch my heart. I am a bit be-twixed and between on what this may be. Physical pain (which my brain is not acknowledging but my body is definitely reacting to) apparently, in normal folk, does send one into depression and is overwhelming. This I did not know. I am not feeling it on a neurological level. It is a bit like dissociation from the neuro part of pain but my physical self is very much affected by it. I am physically frail, worn down, randomly crying and can't think straight.

I am pretty sure that there is a 'part' of me (4 day old to 2 month old), who knows this feeling of being overwhelmed by pain. I would think, based on my past reactions that I would be going catatonic through it but I am not. This is not fear, which I think I am learning is what the catatonia is triggered by. This is my body and mind not syncing up to overwhelming pain. Whenever I react I feel like I am faking. I wonder if this is where much of the 'faking thoughts' come from in PTSD - the mind just not being able to acknowledge that pain is real. I am attempting to stop my inner critic in its incessant, 'you are an idiot, there is nothing wrong with you, shore up, get a grip, get a life' narratives.

I am attempting to figure out the patterns to my body reactions and sync them up with my mind but it is difficult. It is interesting that I am having all sorts of dreams about betrayal right now. Very vivid. Not sure where that came from.

Eleanor, I have had three children but not one labour pain. I literally had to lie with a face cloth over my head in a darkened and quiet room to figure out if I was in labour. I was almost too late at the hospital with my 2nd son and had to fight with them to check me as I swore I was crowning and they swore I was not (I was). So, unfortunately I have NO frame of reference for this.

I am heading to see a GP on Thursday at the strong request of a friend. She wants me to go on anti-depressants (which I will not). No, Hope, it doesn't feel right to me when I check in with my 'parts'. Thank you for reminding me of that. My appt with pancreas doc is April 14th. Seems like a long time away. Trying to remember that psychologically and physically I have a bunch to grieve for right now. I almost get a sense that I am recognizing that my ANP (the person I have known to be me) has been completely dismantled. I cannot attach to her at all right now and that I am grieving for 'her'. Who I am right now is not as strong (if you want to call it that). I am reacting to pain, I am suffering, I am feeling emotions that are pissing me off. My ANP would never have allowed that to happen and I have made a choice, cognitively, to be this new person. It is an odd feeling as I seriously have no idea who I am right now in any way. When I think it through, yes, there is grief in that. I will need to reframe as time goes on to see the joy in it. Thank you so much all.

 

[Hope4Now]

Whenever I react I feel like I am faking. I wonder if this is where much of the 'faking thoughts' come from in PTSD - the mind just not being able to acknowledge that pain is real. I am attempting to stop my inner critic in its incessant, 'you are an idiot, there is nothing wrong with you, shore up, get a grip, get a life' narratives.

I think you are absolutely right about the "faking" being parts insisting that the pain is not real. The parts are trying to protect us from the pain, but they've gone to such an extreme in their protecting that they're preventing us from being whole human beings who can feel the full range of our experiences from the past and in the present. These protector parts come from long, long ago and are still doing the same job they always have even though time and circumstances have changed. I'm sorry you have this inner critic part...I have one too (and for me, "inner critic" doesn't quite reflect its intensity...I have a much more violent name/image for mine)...it has always driven my functional parts. Unfortunately, knowing it is there, and even recognizing its role in what's wrong with me is only the first step.

I almost get a sense that I am recognizing that my ANP (the person I have known to be me) has been completely dismantled. I cannot attach to her at all right now and that I am grieving for 'her'. Who I am right now is not as strong (if you want to call it that). I am reacting to pain, I am suffering, I am feeling emotions that are pissing me off. My ANP would never have allowed that to happen and I have made a choice, cognitively, to be this new person.

:hug::cry::(. I think...maybe this new person...is your SELF. The SELF that is seeing all your parts, feeling emotions, aware of your vulnerability as a full human being. Other parts are scared, and pissed off? Sort of like a change in government from an authoritarian dictatorship to a messy democracy?

It is an odd feeling as I seriously have no idea who I am right now in any way. When I think it through, yes, there is grief in that. I will need to reframe as time goes on to see the joy in it.

I suppose that perhaps we can only feel deep joy to the extent we can also feel deep grief. The evanescence of all of it. We have only this moment.

 

[Hope4Now]

What if flashbacks are the body's way to revisit past experiences one last time, before officially mourning with honor, remembrance, and saying goodbye?

This is a fascinating concept. Thank you. It completely fits with what I've been thinking about lately in terms of my flashbacks to stuck places.

It isn't all deep, dark, and depressing, but at first, that is what most people notice about it. So I don't want to discount the gravity, depth, and seriousness of genuine grief. However there is an amazing preciousness, vibrancy, pure life energy, creative edge, speechless awe inspiring quality to grief, especially being around death.

You're right. We're often so afraid to feel the deep, dark, depressing aspects that we don't get to experience the other. I had a moment of this one time about a year ago. First time I think I actually "grieved" for my father. It came on suddenly while I was listening to a song. My father had been dead for almost six years...I thought I had grieved for him, but something happened that day that was a vibrant and precious release. Gentle tears (and tears are highly unusual for me) and a sense of opening in my core. Of connected energy to the universe etc. It was lovely. And for an hour afterward, I had no pain at all in my body.

I'd like to be able to get to this place with all my parts. There is a tsunami of grief stuck in me...coming out in flashbacks. So I'm going to contemplate your comment on flashbacks today. Thanks!

 

[shimmerz]

I feel like any time we are involved with flashbacks and lose our sense of the time construct that we are accessing 'parts' that don't honour the time theory that we were taught as youngsters.

I liked the fear of grief just like I fear my tears. Like it will never end. ANP's don't like lack of control ;-)

 

[Ronin]

That might be an interesting question on itself; how do people view time, how trauma effects/ed it, how our childhoods effect it, and what were we taught about time itself when we were wee. We've got enough diverse forum I'm sure would lead to some interesting conversations.

 

[sun seeker]

Please forgive me if my thoughts are a bit disjointed, or if I've missed something someone has already said, but I do have a few things to share about this. First, I am so very sorry this process has to be so hard for you @shimmerz, and I have vast respect for all the work you are putting into it. It may not feel like you have a choice right now, but from here, I see you facing it and working through it, and that is so hard to do.

I am heading to see a GP on Thursday at the strong request of a friend. She wants me to go on anti-depressants (which I will not). No, Hope, it doesn't feel right to me when I check in with my 'parts'.

It's too early to consider antidepressants even if you did want to take them I think - this has been going on for about a week, correct? On that note though, because of your pain perception I am wondering if you could have an infection and not know it, and I have a question about that. Have you taken your temperature? A fever would be a clear sign of infection, and knowing that would at least give you some direction. I think you could well be right that some of this is about the pancreatitis. April 14 does sound like a long way off (sigh - that's the down side of Canada's medical system!) so I thank your friend for encouraging you to see your GP, much as I can understand your reluctance.

As someone with normal pain perception, I would confirm that pain causes extreme fatigue. For me it doesn't cause depression, just makes me want to sleep a lot, but I'd be interested in what others have to say on this. And that's not taking possible infection into account.

Something I would invite you to ponder:

I am afraid to even post for fear of saying 'something wrong', but am doing it anyway.

Can I ask you, what are you afraid will happen if you do say something wrong? Whatever you think of first, what is behind that? And behind that? Until you get to the core fear. For instance, I'm guessing the surface fear is something like that we will misunderstand you or be hurt or offended (or maybe not). After you've answered that, ask yourself "and supposing that happens... what then?" What is the real fear with this fear of saying something wrong? Again this is me guessing, but is it possible that when you get to the core fear that is the answer to these questions, that will also be the core loss you are grieving over?

The other thing I wanted to share is a grief ritual that might resonate with you, or if not, maybe with someone else. It's simple yet profound. I've used it several times.

The next time you are crying and really feeling the grief, get a glass of water. Spring water or filtered water would be best, but whatever you have is fine. Sit with it and as you feel all those feelings, project them into the water. It will absorb them. Keep doing this until you feel this bout of grief ease. Then go outside and pour the water onto the earth. The earth will absorb and transform it. It's strong enough and big enough, you don't have to worry about hurting anything. Then sprinkle a pinch of sugar or anything else sweet on the earth to give thanks.

You can stop there, or you can take one more step. Get another glass of water and if/when you are feeling calm enough, focus on as positive a feeling as you can summon (don't aim for elation here - you are in the middle of grieving after all) and project that into the water. Then drink it and know you are replacing the energy of grief with the new energy.

That's all for now. Thinking of you...

p.s.
@Eleanor, I am so very sorry about your kitty. They are all so special and brighten our lives so much.

 

[shimmerz]

I see you facing it and working through it, and that is so hard to do.

ditto my friend.

It's too early to consider antidepressants

Agreed. People (normal) (wait, not that you aren't normal) don't understand all of the nuances with this PTSD stuff. Especially when it comes to the flooding stuff as Hope calls it. That, on top of my 'situation' and my peeps just jump on their version of fix it NOW. Drives me crazy. Now that I am not triggery though, I am good at asserting myself and people aren't second guessing me all over the place.

if you could have an infection and not know it,

Could very likely be. I wouldn't feel a temperature if I was 105 degrees. Will figure out a thermometer.

For me it doesn't cause depression, just makes me want to sleep a lot,

I understand this. I am going to say that along with not feeling pain, I also don't feel tired. I keep going like the energizer battery. This not feeling pain is a multi-faceted bag of delight. There is no 'part' of me, that I know, that actually recognizes what pain is, what tired is, what hungry is. Therefore, I have people remind me to lie down to sleep, to eat, to wear warm clothes, to not sit in a hot car, to not wear too many clothes when it is hot out. I am kind of a high maintenance friend, although it isn't my intention. I am like a freaking 3 year old. So I wonder if because they and I don't know how much this is affecting me yet, I am just completely wiping out physically but yet keep going until I crack emotionally. Not sure yet. I appreciate your thoughts on fatigue. That confirms that for me.

Can I ask you, what are you afraid will happen if you do say something wrong?

That I will do someone harm. That they will misunderstand me or, if I am skewed, that I will throw something out at them that will inadvertently damage them emotionally. Not make them think about something, not that kind of hurt, but a core hurt.

but is it possible that when you get to the core fear that is the answer to these questions, that will also be the core loss you are grieving over?

Interesting Sun, thank you. I am going to mull this over in the morning when my energy is perhaps back (cross fingers) and see what I come up with. I am dumb as a stump this time of night.

Love the idea of the water. It is quite NLP'ish with a physical twist! Thank you so much. I will give that a try.

I have two more Tylenol 3's. I will take them over the next two days (I have gathered myself together since taking them). That will leave me Tuesday and Wednesday to see what happens with my emotions/grief and then the doctor on Thursday. I should have a better grip on the potential for this pain theory by then.
Thanks so much Sun! I hope you had an easier day today. :hug:

 

[shimmerz]

how do people view time, how trauma effects/ed it, how our childhoods effect it, and what were we taught about time itself when we were wee.

It is an interesting idea. My brain is a bit spinny tonight, but a little earlier on I second guessed this as far as the EP's were concerned. I know that just because I am emotional, if I feel like an EP is out, doesn't necessarily mean I have lost my sense of time. However, I do tend to get 'lost' in time. I will need to think about this some more as it relates to EP and ANP stuff. I think a post on time would be a great idea Kaia. Did you want to throw a post out there? Thanks so much for your thoughts on this and would appreciate any more.... :hug: