Structural Dissociation?

[Ronin]

then I drive home in a fog and e-mail her to quit. These would be the two strong EPs and they are completely disconnected from others.

What about keeping logs of that (either you if they aren't erasing the evidence and/or the part of you that's more tech savvy than you are) and having the therapist keeping the emails, and then working on it? Asking the T to get back to you if something like that happens, instead of passing it go, because support on it is very much needed and you're prolly not able to support yourself about it?

 

[Ronin]

To a point, the angry parts are helpful. But not this one. It's too much. It wants to be totally high. It has abused and poisoned me a lot. It has broken things. It wants to destroy me.

How would you deal with meeting a person like that in the outside world? How would you keep yourself safe? (or maybe more to the point: against whom from the outside world / your prior life can they be a defense, whose messages about your value are they acting on, or attempting to overturn by this behavior?) (Personal; just sharing questions on what has helped me in that journey a bit and that I'm hoping might inspire you about your own situation.)

Okay, onto semi-normalcy protected by knife in pocket. See if sunshine and biking pulls me back out since I'm like only half a foot into this part at the moment. Anyway, sorry that's not a very fun part. Pretty ugly. :mad::mask::blackeye::ninja: But it's gotten me into a lot of trouble and I don't yet understand how she's helped me survive (I do understand on some level preventing overwhelm, even if the response to stress seems pretty damaging in itself).

Life is ugly by default, with so beautiful spots meantime ;) (It's alright, and I don't think people are ugly. ;))
You mentioned having control; you may have found a part of answer in that already; she kept you, the sum of you, in control of your life, not helpless, not choice less, because you could always choose destruction. A+ on acting faster than own's abuser and A+ on survival and A+ on sabotage and probably also A+ on camouflage, oh-my about chaos in own lines though. >__>
(Erh. That was meant to be 'she's done good, you've done good, there are so many strong good sides about all of it, congratulations on getting where you are already... but there are very greener hills with healing, out there, so please let's keep moving :)'.)

 

[Chava]

Asking the T to get back to you if something like that happens, instead of passing it go, because support on it is very much needed and you're prolly not able to support yourself about it?

She does respond briefly to e-mail when I'm really f*cked up. And when I've e-mailed her to quit she has a way of responding that surprises me because it doesn't validate my self-hatred or make her sound angry or uncaring. She sort of tells me not to quit when I'm feeling like this or have so much going on, that it's probably not a good time...like she kind of tells me what to do without talking down to me. She's sort of talking to the reasonable part of myself. It feels good that she isn't offended or freaked out, and also doesn't give up on me. It is helpful to have someone who can experience the range of crazy that I can be and not be scared away by me.

(Erh. That was meant to be 'she's done good, you've done good, there are so many strong good sides about all of it, congratulations on getting where you are already... but there are very greener hills with healing, out there, so please let's keep moving

Thanks @Kaia :)

This morning it hit me that the self-protective part and the self-destructive part are THE SAME PART. :O_o::nailbiting: In what universe does that make sense? They are stuck together. The feelings and behaviors are largely the same. But as the self-destructive impulses recede I realize it's like a muddy layer revealing what is really a messed up protective response. Like I used to hold my knife and cut myself. Then just hold it. Last night I fell asleep holding my knife and a teddy bear. I don't want to hurt myself. I want to protect myself. But when I feel really threatened and unable to do that, the impulse is driven back into me. Actually minimal "fight" response energy (probably from too young). I just want to curl up and hold a knife. I e-mailed my therapist a bit and we'll talk about it when I see her.

Doesn't seem logical. But best example actually came from one of my dreams where I watched a man cut his own guts out with a knife so he could not be killed (by my family). He was my hero. (okay I'm like queen of disturbing imagery this week, sorry).

Feels good to know I have a protective part...and even that I don't have to be afraid of the destructive part. It's not actually going to kill me (just gets in the way of me taking good care of myself). Knowing these EPs or parts help me trust myself a little better because i'm not such an alien to myself.

 

[Chava]

I like this:

"The 'night sea journey' is the journey into the parts of ourselves that are split off, disavowed, unknown, unwanted, cast out, and exiled to the various subterranean worlds of consciousness... The goal of this journey is to reunite us with ourselves. Such a homecoming can be surprisingly painful, even brutal. In order to undertake it, we must first agree to exile nothing." --Stephen Cope

 

[Hope4Now]

This morning it hit me that the self-protective part and the self-destructive part are THE SAME PART. :O_o::nailbiting: In what universe does that make sense?

Yay for the realization. I'm learning the same thing about me. In what universe? Ours. Early and ongoing trauma. We are strong, strong people, @Chava. We survived. It's just that lots of parts of us don't quite know that yet and need a lot of updating.

I've been working on that updating thing. If it weren't so hard and intense and fraught, it would be funny. Standing in my kitchen with a knife pressed to my flesh, ready to cut. Deciding where, how deep. Imagining the relief. Huh?! Then realizing I'm standing in my kitchen with a knife pressed to my flesh. I look at the knife...it came with a food gift a few years ago...I think wow, this is pathetic...I just grab a random steak knife with a plastic handle for this serious cutting business. What the hell? Why am I doing this? Stupid. NO! Not stupid...a part. A helper part. Hello there protector part...what's going on with you? Why do you have me standing here? What do you want me to know??? Can we just sit down with tea and talk a little? I put the knife down. I do a few push ups, or some other body movement. I pick the knife up again....you get the picture. Eventually I can listen enough to what the part wants me to do, but not actually DO it. It wants me to cut because it doesn't want me to feel other stuff. It wants to get the other stuff out without me having to look at it or experience the feelings. It thinks I'm still in the middle of all of it. It jumps in when my run-away protector doesn't have enough umph to run.

I'm now having a go at watching this part in my mind. And the funny thing is, when I do that, something shifts and it's not the adult me/now me that's cutting, it is a child me. So I watch. I witness. It is really hard to watch and witness without wanting to DO something... to just be there with the child part that is trying to destroy herself/himself. To let that part see me...know I'm here and they're there, but somehow we're together. I can just be there with him/her...I don't have to jump in and save because she's in my head--there's no real knife and no real body--so no harm can come. Witnessing the child part that's in so much pain is enough. That's what is wanted by the child part. When the self-destructive real life me zooms in, it cuts off my precarious relationship with the desperate child part who is still stuck in the past.

I don't know if ANY of this has any resonance for you, @Chava, or anybody else. But you seem to be really struggling with the weirdness of all this stuff, and I want you to know you're not alone.

 

[Chava]

Thanks @Hope4Now ....this is a challenging part to witness. I think part of the problem is she has no tools. She does not have strength. She has a knife. I'm trying to think of anything that might be a suitable replacement because I can't get into this in therapy, because I sense bringing my knife is not all that appropriate! Maybe a plastic butter knife? :confused: Like maybe that part would have felt okay if I could have held onto my knife when things got too weird for me once in therapy and all I could do was claw at my head. Holding a stuffed animal would not have helped. But I have to say my current knife is a wimpy, tiny pocket knife (I've downsized from large and sharp blades). It's actually pretty useless...but more like symbolizing protection. So I'm not sure what could be a replacement...what sort of "weapon" could soothe that part.

I hope I have the guts to explain this a bit in therapy. My therapist does know about some of this but it's hard for me to talk very much.

Glad to hear you have a witnessing part that can work alongside the protector part. I think I just have the smallest bit of that coming together.

 

[Hope4Now]

I hope I have the guts to explain this a bit in therapy

yes it would be good. I've been trying but it is very hard for me...lots of other parts get activated when we go there.

Maybe a plastic butter knife? :confused: Like maybe that part would have felt okay if I could have held onto my knife when things got too weird for me once in therapy and all I could do was claw at my head. Holding a stuffed animal would not have helped.

Would a toy knife work?
Yeah, the bear is comforting for some parts, but not parts like this one.

 

[Ronin]

Thanks @Hope4NowShe has a knife. I'm trying to think of anything that might be a suitable replacement because I can't get into this in therapy, because I sense bringing my knife is not all that appropriate! Maybe a plastic butter knife? :confused:

What about keys, lighters, small pencils / coloring pencils, chalk, spoons, coins? Off the top of my head (I'm trying to do a route of 'ok what do people use for weapons when it's not 'anything goes stay safe' up, in which I was about to ask you to look around you, let her look around you, and pick something up.)

 

[Chava]

Would a toy knife work?

Like a kid's play set knife? I almost think it might for lower level stuff. I've done some weird stuff and brought some weird stuff to therapy but I'm a little scared to ask about a plastic toy knife. But something along those lines to help differentiate and communicate where I'm at (the knife place is "back the f*ck off" place). I'll see what comes out of trying to talk about it a little. Thanks @Hope4Now

@Kaia thanks for those ideas. A crayon might work. If I'm not thinking about it (easy enough), it feels like a small weapon...it depends on the feelings and how you hold it. Maybe I bring a few since I'm sure they'd be snapping.

 

[Chava]

My right hand (seems to operate on behalf of my adult brain) could hold the crayon close like a weapon. My left hand, however, was shaky and unsure and tried to put the crayon into my eye. My therapist carefully intervened. My left had seems to express all the trauma disorganization or non-adult parts. My right hand even tried to show it how to hold the crayon. Nope. At the end I was very ungrounded. My right hand tapped my left to bring it back. I was really dizzy.

I went home and instead of fixing this conflict and uniting myself through burning my left arm with my right arm, I got some compression tape. My right arm wrapped up my left arm, gave it a glove, and a wrist weight. So now it is warm, heavy, protected, and grounded. So left and right or trauma child and adult united for now under right hand protecting the left. And nobody will lose an eyeball tonight. :blackeye:

It was scary. But I'm glad to use some self protective stuff, even if the traumatized parts cannot yet. Other parts can do it for them.

 

[Ronin]

Congratulations, Chava. That's big. Keep at the efforts please, you're made of win. ;) (Sorry for short; not verbalizing well)

 

[Chava]

Thank you @Kaia . Weird to me how much gets played out through my hands, but they are the primary source of agency (or so it seems), and I am a musician (instrumentalist...forget using my voice). My therapist appreciated the "duet" between my hands. I like that my therapy doesn't have to be "logical" or follow an exact formula or script...somehow leaves room for it to actually make sense to me. :)