News Bernie Sanders

[Kintsugi]

Republican politicians are going to come down brutally hard on either Hillary or Bernie, @EveHarrington, although I would guess Clinton would have a remarkable advantage over Sanders with democratic politicians.

On the other hand, I strongly believe that if Trump seems slated to be the republican nominee, Sanders has a much better chance of winning voters who are not Trump loyalists but who believe in politicians who are self-funded and not Washington 'insiders,' even though Sanders has been in politics virtually his whole life.

I also believe I'm tired of feeling citizens should resign themselves to voting for who they think is more likable to other elected officials. To think that the people should be swayed by the stubbornness of our currently sitting politicians is repugnant and alarming. You assholes work for us... get to work working with who we vote for, or GTFO of the way. :shifty:

ETA regarding the potentially imminent American refugee situation in a post-Trump USA: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/boro...h-pandas-could-worsen-american-refugee-crisis

:hilarious:

 

[stillstanding2]

Republican politicians are going to come down brutally hard on either Hillary or Bernie, @EveHarrington, although I would guess Clinton would have a remarkable advantage over Sanders with democratic politicians.

This is basically what I believe. The Republicans are going to stay in lock step as long as they can. It worked to almost paralyze a whole branch of government (Executive) for eight years. Regardless of what could be ideal, some of us may have to compromise our private wishes to select a candidate who can not only win, but succeed in the office.

I frankly think Bernie has some fine ideas, but what good are they if he never gets to act on them? I've voted in every presidential election since the 60s, and in every one, there has been another person I liked better. But a couple of times, I voted my ideals and only helped split the vote against the worst candidate. We can't afford another crap shoot that worsens the broken status quo.

And the many idealists' protesting "all of the above" and not voting at all is something the Republican party has always counted on for an edge. Just history.

 

[Kintsugi]

And so it would seem, @stillstanding2, that we fundamentally differ on everything except that small quotation you pulled. ;)

 

[aftermath]

I totally feel the Bern!!!

I'm hoping that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren team up. They would be my political dream team (if it was up to me, I'd mix in Ralph Nader somehow, too).

 

[stillstanding2]

And so it would seem, @stillstanding2, that we fundamentally differ on everything...

Great! I agree that we disagree. That is what real debates are. Now, perhaps someone here will stop sloganeering long enough to offer people like me some believable strategy by which Bernie can win. Tell us how he can beat the very consistent pattern of history? I don't want to debate on behalf of other skeptics about Bernie's chances. I just want to hear something persuasive.

 

[Deleted member 28740]

@stillstanding2

I just want to hear something persuasive.

I inform myself, listen to the debates and check record facts. And not just the Washington Post.

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/11/headlines/washington_post_runs_16_anti_sanders_ads_in_16_hours

"Meanwhile, The Washington Post is receiving criticism for running a total of 16 negative stories about Bernie Sanders in only 16 hours. From Sunday, March 6, to Monday, March 7—which included the time period of the Democratic debate in Flint, Michigan—The Washington Post ran more than a dozen articles criticizing Sanders. This follows a trend of mainstream media coverage either ignoring or scorning Sanders. Data from the Tyndall Report showed that Donald Trump received up to 23 times as much coverage on mainstream media networks than Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders in 2015."

 

[Kintsugi]

@stillstanding2 Are you asking about how he can win the primary or how he could win the general election?

The former is a silly thing to argue about. The current math doesn't look great for Bernie, and if he did win the primary, it would be a historical oddity, but there is no compelling reason for those who prefer him not to vote for him. There are two candidates. Democrats are not in a position like republicans, where voting for Rubio could endanger Cruz's chances and therefore open the door even further to Trump. If you like Sanders better than Clinton, there is exactly zero reason you should not vote for him.

If you're just trying to make a point about his mathmatical odds, I'm not really sure why. Math isn't that interesting of a conversation, unless you are just having a bit of a spiteful gloat because you're a big Clinton fan, in which case I find that an exercise in the sort of asinine behavior better suited to kids on a playground dancing and saying "Nah nah na boo boo."

If you are speaking about how Sanders could win in the general election--particularly against the extremely likely Trump nominee--that would be a much more interesting conversation.

 

[stillstanding2]

@stillstanding2


I inform myself, listen to the debates and check record facts....

Thank you. This is the kind of historical pattern I'm familiar with. Media bias is part of the system that has clobbered every independent I've voted for. I imagine it will get worse, and be fed by both big parties. It underscores yet another challenge for Bernie. Especially with the big parties as polarized as I've ever known, a little guy has an even slimmer chance. Even if I hoped for everything Bernie stands for, even if he were my brother, I would see this hazard and more.

I know I'm somewhat of a spoiler on this thread, not being breathlessly giddy about Bernie, and perhaps I'll go away again. But I would point out that votes for Bernie, if he simply can't win, will only lessen the votes for the second worst candidate. In that way, Bernie becomes the spoiler.

So the hard question that no one has attempted to answer is not why Bernie SHOULD win, but how Bernie CAN win. If this thread is unconcerned with that, then I probably will drop the subject and let the band play on until the day after the election. Here's a hint to some of the young-uns: there is no comfort in seeing how much your candidate did not win by.

 

[stillstanding2]

@stillstanding2 Are you asking about how he can win the primary or how he could w...

I've been talking about how to win the Presidency and succeed in office. I guess I regret spending my time asking what I thought were worthwhile issues. I don't need to be pilloried for not joining the RahRahRah.

 

[Kintsugi]

I was ready to have a dialogue about that, as I thought you were calling in this thread for friendly debate, but I suppose my attempts to do so are labeled pillorizing instead of the debating you were looking for, though I'm not really sure why. I suppose inciting frank discussion from your end of things is "what real debates are," as you stated, while inciting such discussion on my end is makes you feel "pilloried for not joining the RahRahRah."

...I find nothing about that ironic at all, nor do I suspect that you are seeking a condescending and demeaning attitude when someone takes you up on your goal of engaging in a "real debate."

Sometimes you take up an invitation to step into the ring and find your opponent actually has a distaste for being struck back. Funny, that.

 

[stillstanding2]

Sometimes you take up an invitation to step into the ring and find your opponent actually has a distaste for being struck back. Funny, that.

Funny that? I don't understand why you are throwing spitballs like your playground remark. And I have not meant to "strike back" offensively. I just want to read some sensible discussion about how Bernie might overcome the factors against him and become President.

Nobody seems to want to tackle that, and I don't think it is a childish question. I will probably leave this discussion, not because I'm a coward as you imply, but because it seems frozen in goodwill for Bernie, while not actually offering solutions to real problems. I'm as much a renegade here as Bernie is in politics. I don't necessarily want to argue with you or anyone else, but I do wish someone had the guts to discuss real strategy.

Sideline sympathy for Bernie is easy to find. But real support amounts to sizing up the obstacles, and finding effective solutions. Others besides me would love to listen and not argue. There is a huge number of disaffected older voters who have "been there and done that" for non-winners. The consequences, as we have seen, are non-government and worse.

 

[hodge]

I'm pragmatic when it comes to voting. We need a Democrat in the White House, so I will definitely vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is.

Hmm, unless maybe there comes to be a voting movement to vote against Trump by voting for one of GOP candidates, Like Robio. I'll do anything to keep that sociopathic creep from getting into office.