News Bernie Sanders

[hodge]

Btw, I was thrilled that Bernie won my home state of Michigan!

 

[Deleted member 28740]

asking what I thought were worthwhile issues

Your questions?

Others besides me would love to listen and not argue. There is a huge number of disaffected older voters who have "been there and done that" for non-winners. The consequences, as we have seen, are non-government and worse.

"Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are facing off in the Democratic Primaries, and both have a long way to go. A total of 2,383 delegates or superdelegates are needed to win the Democratic nomination.

So far, Clinton has 663 pledged delegates. She is also believed to have 458 superdelegates, for a total of 1121 delegates over all. Bernie Sanders has 479 delegates in total, and he is being said to only have 22 superdelegates and 457 pledged delegates, according to MSN election results. With Maine still voting, and many primaries yet to be held, it is still anybody’s race. Still, the superdelegates could really hurt Bernie unless he get a substantial lead in quite a few future primaries."

http://www.inquisitr.com/2860397/hi...rimary-results-delegates-and-super-delegates/

The news reports superdelegates as if they were committed, though in reality they are not. Superdelegates can change their votes at the convention or at any time prior to the convention. Therefore, superdelegate votes are not really Hillary’s votes or Bernie’s votes until votes are cast at the Democratic Convention. The video below explains how the press is being irresponsible in counting all the superdelegate votes ahead of the convention.

Changing the way this country has devolved for 40 plus years is not a matter of listening but acting. The 'spoiler' card is BS. Moderation, has shifted massively and through passivity to the right.

The numbers for the electoral college and super delegates should be dismantled. One man one vote per the constitution. Super delegates are what Clinton has. They are not voters, they can change their mind at any time. The real delegate vote is very close between Clinton Sanders if you remove the 'advantage' of those super delegates. How was favor curried and earned and payback. That is a key issue besides finance reform in elections being a travesty.

Not about rah, rah. Get educated and act.

 

[stillstanding2]

Not about rah, rah. Get educated and act.

Good information for everybody!

Your questions?

Main question, re-phrased again, was: "What can anyone suggest that Bernie and his supporters do differently from other dark horses to win the Presidential election and implement his ideas? (Given the power of the opposition, media bias, finances, Electoral College, etc).

I and others honestly want to hear someone answer that.

<Moderator note: @stillstanding2 - please review Link Removed - you are accidentally typing your responses into the quotes you are posting. Thanks!>

 

[Deleted member 28740]

@stillstanding2

I honestly want you to answer your own questions. Change only comes from change. Occupy the election cycle, demand reinstatement of voter rights that have been profoundly eroded. The Koch way or lay down and whimper? Not ME.


Man In The Mirror (Michael Jackson…)

I'm gonna make a change
For once in my life
It's gonna feel real good
Gonna make a difference
Gonna make it right

As I, turn up the collar on
My favorite winter coat
This wind is blowing my mind
I see the kids in the streets
With not enough to eat
Who am I to be blind?
Pretending not to see their needs

A summer disregard, a broken bottle top
And a one man soul
They follow each other on the wind ya' know
'Cause they got nowhere to go
That's why I want you to know

I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you want to make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself, and then make a change

I've been a victim of a selfish kind of love
It's time that I realize
That there are some with no home, not a nickel to loan
Could it be really me, pretending that they're not alone?

A willow deeply scarred, somebody's broken heart
And a washed-out dream
They follow the pattern of the wind ya' see
'Cause they got no place to be
That's why I'm starting with me

I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you want to make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself, and then make a change

I'm starting with the man in the mirror
I'm asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you want to make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make that
Change!

I'm starting with the man in the mirror
(Oh yeah!)
I'm asking him to change his ways
(Better change!)
No message could have been any clearer
If you want to make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make the change)
You gotta get it right, while you got the time
You can't close your, your mind!

(Then you close your, mind!)
That man, that man, that man, that man
With the man in the mirror
(Man in the mirror, oh yeah!)
That man, that man, that man
I'm asking him to change his ways
(Better change!)
No message could have been any clearer
If you want to make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself and then make the change

Oh no, no no

I'm gonna make a change
It's gonna feel real good!
Chime on!
(Change)
Just lift yourself
You know
You've got to stop it
Yourself!
(Yeah! Make that change!)
I've got to make that change, today!
Hoo!
(Man in the mirror)
You got to
You got to not let yourself
Brother
Hoo!
(Yeah! Make that change!)
You know, I've got to get
That man, that man
(Man in the mirror)
You've got to move! Chime on!
Chime on!
You got to
Stand up! Stand up! Stand up!
(Yeah! Make that change)
Stand up and lift yourself, now!
(Man in the mirror)
You know it!
You know it!
You know it!
You know it
(Change)
Make that change

 

[Chava]

Link Removed

 

[stillstanding2]

I honestly want you to answer your own questions. Change only comes from change. Occupy the election cycle, demand reinstatement of voter rights that have been profoundly eroded. The Koch way or lay down and whimper? Not ME.

Thanks, I guess. But I somehow get the drift from most of the foregoing that people on this thread consider me ignorant, rude, spiteful, lazy, passive, cowardly and now lying down and whimpering?

I thought I was a guy who has voted, marched, written political news releases, and met with three sitting Presidents, several candidates, and governors over the years. I thought I had ghost-written speeches for campaigners and activists, gathered signatures, distributed yard signs, helped design bumper stickers and other small stuff. I thought I was a guy whom Karl Rove and Karen Hughes couldn't bully, and whom Ann Richards could commend. I've also had my career almost destroyed by the opposition for not backing down on my ethics. So I thought I had seen myself in the mirror a lot.

I also thought I was a guy in a crimson state where Ted Cruse led the GOP, and Hillary outdistanced Bernie two to one on Super Tuesday. Texas, where Tom Delay engineered redistricting, making Democrats almost extinct.

But I guess I was as wrong about all that as I am in expecting anyone to tell me what will make the difference between Bernie Sanders or any other dark horse candidate of the past. Among all these thoughts, I figured with all the Bernie Bravado, somebody might suggest something new, instead of my trying to figure it out this time.

 

[Kintsugi]

@stillstanding2 I get the impression (which I think @Changeling might also have gotten, from her great earlier response) that you are wondering how Bernie would win running as an independent. Like, just from reading your responses, all I can come up with is that you want to know how Sanders would win as a "dark horse" running against both Clinton and (presumably) Trump? I don't understand that, because as Changeling pointed out, Sanders could still win the democratic party.

Not only could he win the primary. He could very well blast through the rest of March, which would put "superdelegates" in a position to do as they have historically done: vote with the will of the people.

Link Removed

If you're arguing that he is a "dark horse" candidate as the democratic nominee, look at who he is probably going to be running against. Trump is not exactly what I think of when I think "average politician." I don't think, measured against Trump, that Sanders would be viewed as a "dark horse."

Supposing that Sanders is running against Trump, his odds actually look good for several reasons summarized here, ignoring the fact that the predictions herein about meda coverage did not take place (remember, we're assuming he gets the democratic nomination):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-g...-and-presidency-in-a-landslide_b_8968048.html

If we're talking Clinton vs Sanders when it comes to who is best to oppose Trump, though, I really do think Sanders has an edge. If you've been listening to Trump supporters, many of them are looking for a candidate with qualities Sanders actually has (saying what he thinks, not pandering to corporate interests, being alternatively funded) without any of the frankly supervillain-like qualities our dear Donald seems to possess.

Furthermore, I don't think any democrat would abstain from voting in a Trump v Sanders election, because no matter how some dems might disagree with some of Sanders's policy ideas, they wouldn't waste their votes when they could be using them to keep a megalomaniac out of the White House.

Additionally, Sanders has been drawing in huge numbers of independent voters, even if Trump is supposedly getting people out to vote who have not voted previously.

Clinton is not going to be as formidable an opponent for Trump for the simple fact that the people Trump appeals to who have never been interested in politics before or for those who are sick of "slick politicians" or whatever are never going to be won over into camp Hillary, and independent voters are likely to be ambivalent toward her. She will have party loyalists and the segment who is just in the "anyone but Trump" contingency, but that is the only thing that's certain. All of the independent voters and those who have become enamored with Trump for seriously misguided reasons relating to his "no bullshit" (hah!) anti-traditiional politician schtick will be more likely to be potential Trump voters come November.

My comment about the playground was not a personal jab. Unsure of what you were asking, I offered three possiblities for what question you were posing concerning Sanders's plausibility as a candidate. One such possibility is that you were a big Clinton fan simply seeking to flaunt that, mathematically, Sanders is just eeking by at the moment, and my response to that, if that was where you were coming from, was that I found it immature to gloat.

I thought I was a guy who has voted, marched, written political news releases, and met with three sitting Presidents, several candidates, and governors over the years. I thought I had ghost-written speeches for campaigners and activists, gathered signatures, distributed yard signs, helped design bumper stickers and other small stuff. I thought I was a guy whom Karl Rove and Karen Hughes couldn't bully, and whom Ann Richards could commend. I've also had my career almost destroyed by the opposition for not backing down on my ethics. So I thought I had seen myself in the mirror a lot.

Sorry I didn't receive your CV earlier in this thread. Everything you've said all along is so much more brilliantly valid to me now, especially what with all the counter-evidence you've meticulously cited. :rolleyes:

 

[Deleted member 28740]

Thanks, I guess. But I somehow get the drift from most of the foregoing that people on this thread consider me ignorant, rude, spiteful, lazy, passive, cowardly and now lying down and whimpering?

No, my thoughts not along that line at all to you. My thoughts expressed were about the general population.

The media is worse than useless informing the populace about not just Sanders.
Gun rights, abortion, and now immigration are the sole deciding issues for the greater US populace.

I also worked Iowa for a candidate. It was a remarkable experience to be around actively involved individuals who really looked into all the issues and debated with passion. The US has pathetically low voter involvement compared to other countries, "we the people for the people by the people." My nephew was born just before 9/11. His world has been war delivered electronically in sound bites. Hard to have a conversation of substance though he is very intelligent. New world order.

IDEA (Institute for Democractic and Electoral Assistance. Link Removed Has world wide data since WW2.

Global Database on Elections and Democracy
The database provides both quantitative and qualitative data. Quantitative data are given in the form of usual statistics, such as voter turnout and voting age population statistics, or in the form of multiple choices, such as types of electoral systems and models of electoral management. Qualitative data are given in the form of comments and more in-depth information, which can serve the needs of those who would like to obtain more comprehensive information about national practices.


Go to a specific database:

• Link Removed
• Gender quotas
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[scout86]

So the hard question that no one has attempted to answer is not why Bernie SHOULD win, but how Bernie CAN win.

I think the answer to that starts with convincing enough people that voting for him isn't wasting their vote. At the moment, if you're thinking you're going to vote Democrat, you have a choice between Bernie Sanders & Hillary Clinton. If Sanders loses, no real harm done. It's not like there's anyone better running. It's not like he can be a spoiler. If he ran as an independent, or a socialist, in the general election, THEN you run into the spoiler problem.

I happen to live in a state where a third party candidate overcome the "wasted vote" idea. (And I voted for him.) I didn't originally plan to vote for him. What persuaded me was listening to the debates. Those debates were well run and weren't media spectacles. I kept agreeing with the third part. Kept thinking, "This guy is actually pretty smart. And he's THOUGHT about this stuff. And he can think on his feet, not just regurgitate stock lines......" And we ended up with Governor Ventura. And I think he did a pretty good job. I think he's got a personality that makes it hard for him to stick with a serious subject for any length of time, but he's got a lot of abilities that make it possible for him to do this stuff, if he wants to apply himself. But I can't help but notice a continuing effort by "the mainstream" everything to run him down and run down the job he did. We wouldn't want things getting out of control, after all.

People don't LIKE having to chose between the lesser of assorted evils. But we have little choice because the 2 major parties are running the show and have a death grip on who gets to run. We, the people, don't HAVE to buy into that, but it's hard not to. You have to ignore all the voices barking at you, telling you the only thing to do is the conventional thing to do. If more people voted for who they really wanted to vote for, rather than buying into the argument that you "have to vote for the person with the best chance of winning"........ To quote (perhaps not word for word) Jesse Ventura, "The only wasted vote is one for someone who's not the person you most want to win."

What's Bernie's path to victory? My thought? Stress the idea in that quote. Maybe hire the ad agency that did Paul Wellstone's & Jesse Ventura's campaigns. They did a great job. Produced ads that were funny, memorable, got a point across, and were not ever mean.

 

[stillstanding2]

I think the answer to that starts with convincing enough people that voting for him isn't wasting their vote.

Thank you for your concise, logical, respectful, non-condescending, non-sarcastic (rolleyes) reply. It is what the public needs to know. Young and old can understand it. People with little free time can read it clearly and, for a change, be more motivated to vote.

It is gently persuasive, without requiring fanatical research. It could be added to campaign literature. Thanks again.

 

[Chava]

I will never vote for someone on the grounds of voting against another person, and I also would never not vote for someone based thinking they couldn't win. I vote solely based on the fact that I support the candidate.

I respect this view, and yet when the stakes are high...(or when they aren't)...someone is going to win, even if both candidates suck. I rarely fully support any candidate. I wish it could be so black and white, but it almost never is. Someone will be president. And if one option is fully horrible, I will gladly vote for the stronger candidate, even if they aren't perfect either...because someone is going to win. It's easier for people to fully support someone when they are extremists anyway. So I prefer to not hand over elections to that side. I will take a little gray area with my government!

 

[LuckyDuck]

I learned more than I ought to on American politics, being Canadian. I thank yous guys for that.

LD

But Canada is better, TBH. *runs*