Other Actual Or Immediate Threat Of Death Or Injury: How Does It Work?

[anthony]

taken prisoner and tortured

I think this opens you up immediately to the immediate threat of death. Plenty of people die being tortured.

Besides, you can't know if they will kill you or not

And that answers the above exactly.

 

[anthony]

your body can and will stop breathing for a period of time, until the levels in your blood even back out

Yup... just like trying to drown yourself. You can't do it without force, the brain will not allow it.

 

[Ed Norton]

Oh boy when Anthony quoted me. I thought I was in trouble! Lol

Edit: like how you sensibly confirmed the 'legitimacy' of why torture is inclusive in the Criteria too @anthony

 

[RussH]

What if someone were taken prisoner and tortured in ways that were calculated to maximize pain and minimize injury, like bamboo under the fingernails, electric shock, waterboarding, kept in a squatting position, etc

Many people who talk about cPTSD will reference this kind of a trauma leading to cPTSD. It is still a situation where you feel a threat to your life

 

[RussH]

As that doesnt go into violence that doesnt include death or thinking one may die

Sometimes we may not consciously think we are going to die, but that does not mean our subconscious doesn't think that. I think anytime a person is undergoing a trauma and part of their brain is saying "this can't be happening" puts them at risk of suffering from unresolved trauma.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Sometimes we may not consciously think we are going to die, but that does not mean our subconscious doesn't think that.

Yeah and if i think of it, being drowned in a bathtub i suppose makes you think you're gonna die.

I guess i was thinking of those w/ violence not like mine, like bad spousal abuse and stuff.

But i suppose the subconscience, being unaware of it, thinks that ot has the survival instinct.

 

[dnp]

I think this opens you up immediately to the immediate threat of death. Plenty of people die being tortured.

And that answers the above exactly.

At Tuol Sleng prison in Cambodia prisoners tried to kill themselves by jumping from the upper levels so they put nets to stop them. I agree that survival instinct is very powerful but for some people, there are worse horrors than death. Some people can accept death quite easily for cultural, religious, etc. reasons. Women in Saipan took their small children and jumped off the cliffs in WW2 to avoid capture by the Americans despite the Americans' decent treatment of prisoners. Fear and horror are to some degree individualized. For some torture and captivity are the worst possible things, even if they don't involve "catastrophic injury."

 

[anthony]

For some torture and captivity are the worst possible things

Agreed, but torture and captivity are forced against your will, thus if you take a look at where we are with our version of criterion A, this already fits in without leaving gaping holes for others to jump in because they fear the dentist.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Jumping instead of facing what they would have to face right away brings my mind to 9/11 and watching those people jumping off the upper stories to their death. They fought that 'will to live' by trying to get out of the way or out of the building some how.

Then again, the those levels of the Twin Towers were engulfed in complete fire, i think, so maybe it was jump or burn to death. And to me buring to death has got to be the worst way to die. Maybe it was like the best way to die?

Makes me sad to wonder that.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

For some torture and captivity are the worst possible things, even if they don't involve "catastrophic injury."

I dont quite understand this, at all.

Torture is catastrophic injury.

Captivity is castastrophic injury even if it doesnt involve torture and it leaves you (what seems forever and sometimes is) captive in your own mind even year and years after you are no longer in captivity. Thats castastropic injury PSYCHOLOICAL.

Whats the point here?

 

[dnp]

I don't worry about gaping holes. Do I believe that in the US some people are committing fraud against private insurance, government insurance, government pensions with regard to PTSD claims? Hell yea! But we have a legal system and it starts functioning when insurance and government start auditing PTSD claims and bringing lawsuits or prosecuting people. When they get off YouTube for a minute and do some audits. Committing fraud is a terrible way to make money or feel better about yourself. Just terrible.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Fraud commiting, in my view, isnt why we are trying to close the holes.