A split mind is normal rather than a unified integrated one.

OliveJewel

MyPTSD Pro
love bombing,
This jumped out at me because I associate it with narcissistic behavior, never thought about it as associated with regression. And that brought it into connection with the transference that people with developmental trauma often develop with their T’s—and they want to love bomb their T. Hadn’t thought of it as regression, but that makes a lot of sense.

And then as I read all of these symptoms
with temper tantrums, love bombing, object impermanence, instant gratification / separation anxiety, childish delight
I realized that all of these are indicators of narcissistic behavior. And of course regressive behavior would appear more narcissistic since children are narcissistic. And of course narcissistic behavior is immature, childish, regressive. It is well-known that narcissists behave that way due to developmental trauma, so their emotional development is arrested.

And narcissists have a big split in how they view themselves. But it may not be perceptible to them. My own split wasn’t apparent until after submitting to recovery. And whether or not it IS a split or rather a healing mechanism to overcome old thought habits. And so it is necessary to experience a sort of cleaving. Before and after are somehow relevant to my split mind.
 

Agita Kaput

Policy Enforcement
Sponsor
JMHO though.
Ummm.... whose opinion? 😂

This jumped out at me because I associate it with narcissistic behavior, never thought about it as associated with regression. And that brought it into connection with the transference that people with developmental trauma often develop with their T’s—and they want to love bomb their T. Hadn’t thought of it as regression, but that makes a lot of sense.

And then as I read all of these symptoms

I realized that all of these are indicators of narcissistic behavior. And of course regressive behavior would appear more narcissistic since children are narcissistic. And of course narcissistic behavior is immature, childish, regressive. It is well-known that narcissists behave that way due to developmental trauma, so their emotional development is arrested.

And narcissists have a big split in how they view themselves. But it may not be perceptible to them. My own split wasn’t apparent until after submitting to recovery. And whether or not it IS a split or rather a healing mechanism to overcome old thought habits. And so it is necessary to experience a sort of cleaving. Before and after are somehow relevant to my split mind.
Interesting theoretical discussion of NPD DID type ... here's some concrete material I noticed last week (im in IFS AND doing a deep dive on narcissism)...

1. My default reaction to a shaming events (most) is narcissistic behavior. Mad at the kid?... Silent Treatment.

2. Neighbor complains about my barking dog?... I wanna tell *him* HE'S barking at ME like a dog (in so many words).

Thats just off the top of my head so I'm pretty sure its an active dynamic... but of course I'm watching all this from on high and choosing different responses.

What do you make of all that?

Am starting to suspect that having two minds or two brains is normal and healthy. Because everyone is born in a framework with many opportunities for trauma and everyone has the potential to recognize their self as separate from those frameworks. So there must be a dichotomy. Before-after. Scared-confident. Young-wise. Before recovery-after recovery.

Integration is a direction, but I think there will always be a minimum of two minds, not one. The child has one mind. The adult has two because they carry the mind of the child with them.
 
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OliveJewel

MyPTSD Pro
What do you make of all that?
Not sure.

Thanks for the video. I’ve been avoiding IFS parts so it’s good to remember. I’ve been slacking on organizing my parts. We don’t work with that in therapy much. I’m resisting trying to identify them and just letting them do whatever.
 
Ummm.... whose opinion? 😂
🤣
Thats just off the top of my head so I'm pretty sure its an active dynamic... but of course I'm watching all this from on high and choosing different responses.

What do you make of all that?
I don't want to interfere in the discussion as I don't believe in parts (or IFS) for just me, so please disregard if not helpful.

But the way I look at (my own) repertoire of responses I could choose, would (again, only for me) be based on my emotional state and emotional (dis)regulation, on impulse control, and the like. And be influenced all by my thoughts, intentions , memory etc. But all would start with my thoughts, vs a sub-personality.

So for example, the silent treatment might be what I was used to. Or, I might not know what to say or 'bite my tongue' because I feel my anger rising (and know I won't be diplomatic, or I am overtired, or I am feeling justified because I am angry, or because I'm at work etc etc- not wanting the consequence or alternatively knowing I could cause unfounded hurt I can't take back).

But I don't see my fears, or history, or desires, or temper, or kind-heartedness or anything else as separated? That is, if I'm in a lousy mood, I could respond that way. If I'm remembering what is important and not threatened I might see the other person's side (somewhat). If I'm detached from a knee-jerk reaction and listening better I might feel empathy, or turn it over in my mind 1st. I may question if I want to give the silent treatment; if I think it's a good choice (ever); if I or them or both of us are flooded. Etc.

(Anger is simply an easy example because it always comes with feeling justified, +/or frustrated or needs or desires interfered with, or hurt, or even defensiveness/ responding to the 'past', or not expressing it and it building and exploding, or with grief or fear etc. But when I am, it's 'me'- all me- whether I am proud of it or ashamed. But a response to what I'm 1st thinking, then feeling, then sizing up as perceiving. )

Or as the start of the video said, ~'having 2 minds about something'- well that to me is (very) active thinking, following a mental flowchart of possible outcomes of the mixed emotions (which are normal for everyone).

Does that make sense..? 🤪
 

Agita Kaput

Policy Enforcement
Sponsor
Does that make sense..? 🤪
Your awesome post requires More attention then I can afford at the moment
What three things come to mind;
1. By silent treatment I mean something very very specific to narcissism. Very little to do with the decision to keep your mouth shut.

2. Curious to know if you have significant experience with IFS. Something I've learned is, (and I'm going to say this as it it's "true "regardless of belief ) it's not like there's an angry part. The parts are all complete individuals just as you describe yourself. Rather than embodying anger, you could say one is characterized by anger.

3. The way I hear you thinking reminds me of Theravada Buddhist descriptions of mental factors and experience.
 
Hi @Agita Kaput , no I don't have experience in IFS and fear I've answered wrongly! (Yikes! Sorry if so!)

No I can be childlike but I have only a feeling or perception of one 'me'. It would be handy if I could diffuse responsibility at times to default to an explanation for my thoughts as being a distinct difference within me, but I just can't grasp that, nor an 'inner' child. I think I either lack the imagination (too pragmatic) or I simply think of it as more heart-or-soul engagement/ lack of engagement/ authenticity/ change and maturity/ healing or acting out (or re-enacting). I guess too I see a more neuro-biological influence than one that reflects identities. So if act 'out of character'- I just realize I have the capacities for great(er) evil (or hopefully good too) than I expected under the perfect storm of pressure or fear or grief or anger.

Like a woman I know just said to me (her husband has signed on for medically assisted death (and is being pressured by the medical community to do it now), "People would tell me they were going through Hell and I would say of course, but now I realize I didn't understand that, I had never been through that. Now I understand." And I think it's fair to say, she might have thoughts or temptations that seem very 'apart' from how or who she usually is. But she/ they must feel like they are in a boiling pot. 😭
3. The way I hear you thinking reminds me of Theravada Buddhist descriptions of mental factors and experience.
OMG no it's just plain old me lol. (I must confess Idk what that means either, if it didn't say 'Buddhist' I'd think it was a disease lol. (Just kidding 😊) ).

But that does remind me of a Buddhist story: a man comes and says something like, "You are a big fat pit". The Buddha says, "I see the beauty in you". The young man says "Why?" And the Buddha says, "You are thinking of what you are thinking of, and see a pig. I am thinking of what I am thinking of and see beauty".

But I think it's important each person uses what works for them- if IFS is it, terrific! 😊
 
I'm sorry I thought of one thing that might actually be helpful (?), but missed the edit:

I do very much sympathize, perhaps in a way envy( (? though that isn't the right word) a person being able to say something like, ~these are my child part(s), and therefore I react and feel x, y and z. Or, ~this part doesn't trust, or doesn't know 'not' to trust.

But I would think for myself in my head if I was inclined/ reacting, something like (for example), ~'I can remember (x, y and z) when I was 5; of course I can't know from my adult mind now exactly how I would think or perceive at 5 but I remember feeling (x, y and z). And doing (x,y and z). I am feeling some of those same emotions (abject fear, being alone).' And I see 5 year olds and how and what they think now. But- and it's a big but- for me I don't think this is a child part (or identity, characterized by a feeling). I think rather, 'my childhood experiences shaped my identity and my attachment style. So therefore naturally the lessons I lived and learned and experienced will influence my expectations through my life, unless I challenge the beliefs that aren't factual or true that I formed, but also formed as reinforced from adult experiences. (a,b,c,d...x)'

Or in the example of trusting with abandon above, or not at all, I would love to be able to think, ~'these are parts'. Rather, I would think, 'to trust so fully is childlike, that is true. If I choose to do this, willfully choose to put aside my fears, then it comes with risk'. That doesn't mean I won't, and if I do trust so it will be with awareness I'm in that vulnerable position. Equally, it would be less difficult for me to think, ~'this part needs to be convinced to trust', but I would never think that. I would think, 'I have trust issues', or difficulty trusting. Am I going to? Should I? What does that mean or look like? Can I handle the distress of risk and the unknown?

And yet, sometimes, well most of the time, I am very vulnerable. I think it's just from too many years of battery. And outright exhaustion. I don't have the energy for inauthenticity, or even deep thought/ analysis. I actually think it's kind of abnormal. I don't have the energy or motivation to 'present' or lie, or impress, or compete, or do what everyone is basically supposed to.

So I am very much in the 'now', and I also don't want re-enactments. But if my beliefs need challenging, I need to do it (again, only for me) with as much pretty radical heart-deep honesty that I can. And to become aware/ look for clues of where unconscious beliefs or semi-conscious beliefs are influencing me or driving the bus. And listen to other's (if they are good or wise) advice because maybe they can be more objective or reveal something to me I can't see, or don't understand.

Hope that makes sense! Eiy.
 
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I came back to add, also, @OliveJewel , I meant to say this is your thread, and if your experience (and your experience with IFS) is the opposite, that is very good! One thing no one knows is what anyone else's lived experience is n their mind, and many people seem to benefit and relate to IFS. I hope my words were not callous or insensitive, as that wasn't my intention. You will find many others that relate. 😊

I think for example, of a child having an imaginary friend, another child not (not inferring this is 'imaginary'). Neither child is wrong, and their experiences are true. Or a person who is seemingly naturally very intuitive, and rarely incorrect- their 'sense' is their (also authentic) lived experience, which may be very different from someone else or someone who doesn't seem to sense such things.

Best wishes on your healing journey!
 
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