General Can It Be Common For Sufferers To Lie Or Make Up Stories?

[fin]

Tammy I record things so I know also. I don't do it with everyday stuff although have a couple of times, during an arguement. I have always told who-ever why I am doing it and that I am.

I used to record the CBT work that I had begun with the EMDR specialist last year...It was her suggestion also. I am glad I did it, as it has helped me to remember and ground again. I find in stressful situations I can just blank out what has been said to me, like I no longer am able to process. Probably due to triggering and shutting down. I am aware how I feel about what has been said, it is just that I start to block it out and put it out somehow.

It isn't the whole part of memory and I have found that I have had it used against me. I find it very hard to comprehend how someone could do that. It is just another form of abuse really. That is why I like the fact that what we write here stays here, and we can go back to it to measure ourselves. I find it odd that it seemes so very hit and miss about what gets dropped from my memory bank. I used to remember everything, absolutely everything. And now...

And this is also why I see no point in lying; I would never be able to remember what I had said, I have enough memory issues as it it.

~fin

 

[disenchanted]

I can relate to so much of what has been said here.

Self-hate and the need to be someone else. When I began therapy the first time at age 18 I wanted to be the opposite of the girl I had been. That girl couldn't cope with school or friends or family events. She wasn't liked, was picked on constantly, damaged herself out of rage. She ditched school, had a foul mouth, refused to participate, said hurtful things to grownups. So during therapy I learned to pretend I was in complete control (fake it 'till you make it), and could do it very convincingly. This of course confused people who later realized I was ill. The two 'personalities' didn't mesh and most didn't even try to understand.

I lied, a lot. Not untrue stories, but lies to keep people out of my business or away from me completely. I can relate to lies about phones not working and so forth so I could avoid people, or situations, or the truth about me.

And others lied too. My sisters ex-husband told huge lies about his past. They came out one by one and he denied ever saying them, but he couldn't pull it off. Big, big lies, some posted on the internet too. He is bi-polar and an addict and has anti-social personality disorder. He barely ever told the truth even when it might benefit him. It was like he couldn't.

And this was very hard on my sister because she has memory problems. She has dyslexia. She can't always remember conversations or events and it's very hard to defend oneself when one can't remember what exactly was said or what happened. It also makes her feel stupid, and she will give up explaining herself before the conversation even begins.

Not every personality flaw has the same origin. And not every personality flaw is meant to hurt others. Human interaction can be so difficult. I learned in therapy to trust my family and to approach each moment with them with good will. We have only one agenda when we need to discuss issues and that is to understand and be understood. If we can manage that, we might progress to solving the problem or meeting half-way on stuff. If we don't understand, sometimes we get angry, which is okay, but it means tabling the topic and coming back to it later and trying again. This only works if everyone has good will and puts in the effort. I have tried it with "outsiders" and hidden agendas, double-talk, and the desire to cause pain makes it fail.

Trust is the core issue. And trust might have to be won over and over and over. It is like that between my sister and I. It takes patience and love and dedication to re-establish my trust credentials with her over and over but I do it. I crab about it, but I do it. With her, it's worth it. With some, it isn't.

And to have PTSD, which I do, and to not have people even believe what happened to you. I was sexually assaulted at age eight, and encouraged to share with friends what happened but they didn't believe me. I was lying to get attention or whatever. That really hurts. Having lived through it I can't imagine anyone pretending such a horrifying thing happening to them! And to feel at fault, and violated, and soiled, and ruined, and damaged, and then to not be believed!!!!! It makes a person sensitive about their own validity. Just like memory loss can make a person feel like they are not on solid ground, just like being lied to can feel so personal, about you, and not the person who might be lying, just like being hurt can make us get caught up in the injury and so we don't talk about the way to understand it.

I almost always feel like no one understands me, or I'm off base or whatever and it makes me delete more replies than I post but I'm sticking with this one.

Cat

 

[Mercy]

Dear Andraes,

You have asked a good but difficult question.

First, I would say, please try hard to not take her symptoms personally. They are very very unlikely to have originated with you. Avoidance of people,places, things and subjects of conversation may just be beyond what she can do at this time. They all are full of things that set us off- triggers. For some of us almost everything is triggering.

Secondly, people with PTSD really do have poor memories, especially short term memory. The scientists tell us that the normal space for regular memory is filled up with trauma and fear. Plus we have another memory load in our ancient animal survival brain, the amydigala and hyppocampus which hold the material for flashbacks, and dissociation.

Thirdly, dissociation is an involuntary response to a trigger/perception of danger as percieved by the one with PTSD. You might not even notice anything scary around you but it is there for her. Anything you say and usually anything she says after that, She won't remember. So to cover the embarassment or fill in the missing pieces of memory, she may be struggling to find some kind of answer that she thinks might fit. She does this to not be exposed to ridicule and to make up for the feeling of being totally lost and scared. I have found myself at a dinner party, sometimes not even knowing the people, not knowing who I am, not knowing the topic of conversation, not knowing how to get home. Obviously, I can't panic then and give myself away.......What else can you do but make up some kind of life- some kind of cover. But I wouldn't call it lying.

Lying, conotates to me deliberate forethought with the intent to deceive. Half truths don't fit this definition for me.

Also,Trust any kind of trust comes very hard for people with ptsd. We have been betrayed so very many times. For my husband and me, because my PTSD went undiagnosed for the first twenty years of my marriage, my poor husband who is always trustworthy, bless his heart, just couldn't understand why I didn't trust him!. He is one of the old school British core where his word is his bond. In fact, it offended him that he had to keep on proving he was trustworthy. Poor man.

38 years later and 20 years of therapy of one kind or another, we are still together. I have often felt badly for him. His wedding vows could not have predicted the hell we would have to go through.

Sometimes, carers need a good councelor to help them deal too

Good Luck

 

[fin]

Mercy i really like what you have written here, it explains it really well.

I find that in those times with strangers; exactly almost as you have put it there, which was one of the reasons why I stopped going out and meeting new people. I hope well... I know I have try, and keep trying, and when when I am with people that know me, it helps to be able to honestly say I have to stop now for a minute, and then I try to practise the grounding stuff, and centering that can help me get through whatever it is.

Sometimes it doesn't work, but I believe that the more I try and practise it on-going the better hopefully I will become and get at it. And I practise this if I am with those people that know me, and that helps also, and I think it helps them better understand how I am trying to cope and trying to work through these things. It is a pain sometimes, not always having the luxury to be able to step back and centre or try to. But I believe we have to try to let go of those frustrations and not beat ourselves up about it. And that is tough to do as well.

Of course there are so many moments and times when it sideswipes me. And then I can find I start to beat myself up afterwards because I couldn't stop it. But then I have to come again and try to work on that and come against that also.

It is such a daily struggle for meI so often can and do get it wrong, but I have to just keep trying. Mercy what you share and write about your experiences, I see that you persever and you do it with such dignity, and that encourages me so much Thankyou.

I thank you for what you have written above Mercy, you have put it so well and I can really relate to what you have said here.

~fin

 

[midi]

Some of it depends on the context.

My Ex used to badger me so bad, put me on the spot, make me feel so stupid and useless, that I used to lie about the most trivial things. Sometimes, I just wanted to stay home and paint all night - so he'd say, Why Didn't You Answer the Phone When I called??? I'd lie and say, because I went out all night! Where? he'd ask. Um, to Some Place He Knew I Frequented.

Other times, I just can't remember what the hell happened yesterday--I may think it's one thing, but it's actually something completely different.

I totally agree with what other PTSDers have said - avoidance can lead to lying, especially if you put the person on the spot. One grave mistake I've made in the past - I've treated family and friends like enemies - do not trust, and protect the self at all costs. Course, this is how many people treat each other whether they have PTSD or not, since we do live in a very isolated, individualistic society that revolves around me me me. We also have this self-centered belief that other people are intentionally trying to hurt us all the time, that they've got some alterior motive - she lied about the cell phone because she's a lying scheming wench who deep down just hates ME.

See?

We all could use a little more positive thinking and less negative assuming.

 

[fin]

I love your post midi

Good grief midi, I so get where you are coming from here. This is why I don't lie, I found it so destructive, not only to other people but to myself. I would find if I lied to try to save someone elses feelings or even my own, I could not live with it. Because I would worry about being found out and then I would then get into a cycle of guilt and that would itself spiral down further. And I found I just couldn't cope with any more guilt than I already live with.

It has been one of the hardest things, because it can hurt to tell someone that you cant see them or whatever it is they are asking or wanting you to do. But I have found that if I can have some space and it is ok with other people, then I am much more able to explain properly and well that it isn't necessarily about them. And if I am calm and not being hastled about it, then I am much better able to do it in a way that doesnt offend or upset the other person.

Of course when I first started trying to show that kindness to myself, it went down very badly for some people. They could not always understand that it was my problem and that i did genuinely care for them. It can be seen very much as rejection of who someone else is, but it isn't always about that.

Although sometimes it can be about them, and then I still try to follow the same principle, although I know it isn't about them that I necessarily have a problem. So I try to see it as the problem still being mine, but giving myself permission not to blow it up or think that that in itself is their fault. And I try to explain that it is still maybe me, and that I don't necessarily want any human contact not just theirs. And then PTSD or not, I have to accept when I get it wrong, or screw it up in the delivery.

While lying is sometimes an easier option I believe it is only a short term option for us, it does not give the other person credit for being able to own their feelings, nor does it help me, because I have found it such a destructive thing to do. And even if it is only a tiny lie;I still have to try to rememeber it and I just can't. Also how can the other person trust that it isn't me rejecting them if they catch me in a lie. I have been lied to a lot and I wonder what it is and why I am being lied to. And come to the conclusion some, that it is either about the other person not liking, trusting me and whetever. Or it is about them and maybe they have some ulterior motive and then I can start to worry. It is so not healthy to lie.

So I have to accept all my screw ups and know that I just have to keep trying the best way I know how. I think that is all any of us can do.

I really like what you have written there midi, I think you are so right we do need "a little more positive thinking and less negative assuming". And being as truthful to myself as I can be, I believe will not only help me with this, but help others also. If they think that I have lied over and over, then how can I expect them to believe when I need them to. And my memory is so crap now, in so many ways, I know I would get caught with it. This is just my opinion, but I can see I am not the only one here that believes this letting go of negative behaviour is positive. And I know for me lying of almost any kind is a negative coping strategy.

Of course if I am able to assess and know that I am in a life threatening situation, I may well lie. But I believe that we have to start practising trying to understand what is actually happening. And then it is our positive thinking rather than negative assuming that comes to our aid.

It is just so hard to jeep doing, and very tired to try to have to keep weighing up, especially when triggered. That is when I have to try to recognise that is more of the pTSD itself and keep working on it.
But ask me would I lie if I was facing death, or trauama again. Yes I think I would- absolutely. I am just not as quick witted as I used to be, and know I would not be able to think of something to help protect myself. So I am thinking I would dissociate again. But I will try to live with that, I know it has saved my life in the past.


Sorry to have written a lot again, this is a good thread and discussion. It is helping me to see I am not alone here, and that none of us are with this I think. That said I know I need to stop now and back away a bit, or I will get totally carried away with this. I am trying to recognise when I can step back and do this and trying to step back and not do it....hah!!!

good grief...!!
~fin

 

[unhingedsanity]

In my own experience as a sufferer of PTSD i would say yes. It is unintentional at times but i lie a lot more when i'm in my darker moments. I have no idea what i'm doing but it happens. I think in a way i do it because i need to stabilize my world in some way or form.

- G

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Andreas,
I have PTSD and I can completely identify with why she told you that her cell phone was off. You have said that phone calls with you are stressful for her. I had someone in my life that would call me, and his phone calls were always very stressful for me. It got to the point where my anxiety would skyrocket at just the sound of my phone ringing.

I finally kicked him out of my life because I couldn't deal with the stress anymore. That was 2 months ago and I still haven't turned the ringer on my phone back on. I can't even put my phone on vibrate.

This has been horrible to me because that phone represents my contact with people. It is my support line. And to have to keep it on silent all the time means that I miss most of my calls. So essentially I am cut off from people unless I initiate the phone call. So perhaps she is just protecting herself from the stress of talking on the phone with you. She must have somehow communicated to you that your calls are stressful to her, and perhaps afterwards, the calls continued to be stressful so this is just the next step she is taking to avoid that stress.

 

[enlightenme]

Fin,

Thank you for your posts! My veteran (I'll call him that now because I don't like thinking of him as suffering, although I know that's what he's doing) has the same memory that you and Tammy were speaking about. I can't tell you how many times I've looked at him in disbelief when he doesn't remember something. I feel terrible that I am just now educating myself, I worry that I've done more harm than good in his life. Tammy, how did EMDR work for you? I go to therapy and my therapist has done EMDR it seems to work quite well for me but I do not have PTSD. I've spoken with my veteran about it but am interested how it worked for someone who suffers from PTSD.

Thanks for your time!

Namaste