Can't Stop Feeling Ashamed/depressed About The Past And Feeling Insecure About Not Being A "man"

[Glen Myers]

If you're going to say you don't believe me, just click on another question. Don't waste your time saying you don't believe in what I'm saying. Besides, who would take up THIS much time writing something fake? Haha sorry if I sound skeptical about this place but a lot of people have just talked down what I have been through or tell me I deserved it because I didn't just adapt and began fighting.

When I was younger (12-17, now I'm 20) I hung out with a group of people that always messed with me in every way possible and when I tried to do something back they would yell at me and try to fight me. Some of them were my height and around my build, I could of honestly taken them on in a fight if that's the kind of mentality I had, but mentally, I'm not a fighter and the thought of throwing down makes my knees buckle and want to cry. In terms of physical capability I'm not a wrestler or athlete or anything but I'm not scrawny either. I just didn't have the heart it takes to get into a physical altercation (still don't), and I think one or two of them didn't either so I don't know why it was ME that was always messed with and picked on. Even when there was new additions to group after me, they would still chose me to pick on. I think it was because I kind of forced their style (skater) on myself and just randomly started dressing like them one year, one of them still talked to me and asked me to hang out with them but after a couple of weeks they just randomly started picking on me little by little and eventually they became inhumane.

They didn't care anything about how they made me feel, they would take my stuff and put it somewhere I couldn't get to it and I did it to them, smiling as to get revenge in a friendly manner and they would start pushing me and trying to fight me. When I didn't want to and I would almost start to tear up they'd begin laughing at me. Days after it happened they would remind me of it while they all laughed and talked about it like I was full on crying. They thought the only way to earn respect was showing you could fight. Over the years, we started making friends with ghetto people and our group changed for the worse. We started getting arrested all the time and began dressing like we were in a gang (not a specific one just like street people dress in general). Their treatment got worse as we made more friends like that, they came from really bad neighborhoods knew nothing but yelling out insults, getting into fights, and taking peoples stuff so they could always have new clothes on.

So some of the people in my group left because they didn’t like the direction it was turning in. But I always fantasized about being a gangster so I stayed with them and dressed up like that. I didn’t really see how bad they were treating me back then, if I did I would’ve left. Maybe I did know how bad they were treating me I just felt like I would have been a coward to walk away because it showed I couldn’t roll with the tough guys. I thought sticking around and taking their sh* t was the braver thing to do because they were thuggish and it would of made me part of a rough environment, something that at the time I considered a thing to brag about, being able to say I had it “hard” growing up.

In reality, even though I was nowhere near rich (actually pretty poor), and my parents did argue with each other, there was one difference between my home life and theirs. I always noticed their parents were bitter as hell and yelled at them, barely bought them anything, left them to fend on their own (a lot of them only had a mom and the ones that did have dads had horrible ones). My parents ALWAYS loved me, taught me about having manners, how to act in public, to always be grateful. Whenever they would hand me a cigarette or do me a small favor (they weren’t cruel 100% of the time) and I would say something like “thanks” they would get annoyed and asked why I said that, like people are always supposed to be hostile and rude. Their parents mostly bought stuff for themselves with the little money they had and that makes me think that they went out and “borrowed” my stuff (they just kept it) or stole someone else’s just because they didn’t have their own things and I had parents that provided/cared for me.

Could it be that they were abused/not cared for as kids? If not than how can a HUMAN BEING be so cruel to another? Are they not supposed to possess humanity How can one actually take PLEASURE in doing what I have described above? Just laugh about me while they push me around and mess with me? How could they humiliate me so much and just live on without thinking twice? Just because their parents treated them badly? It makes me sick because I know plenty of abused people who come up from bad homes and they end up being some of the most loving, caring people I know. Why did these people only care about fighting?

 

[marylouise]

I grew up in a place where people were violent. Violence was honor. I was violent; at 18, I would have told you that "no one f*cks with me" and I believed I had the physical powress to back that up. My father taught me how to fight. Men in my town always carried knives with them in their boots. They fought, or were on the verge of fighting often. Young men could prove themselves in a fight, meaning they got "respect". This was a culture, very different than the middle-class American culture that I'm part of now.

I've thought a lot about why this was. I think people were angry. They were angry because they were in a place with nothing to offer except shitty jobs and a depressed economy. As poor people, they were also more likely to grow up with addiction and neglect, which meant both the possibility of violence in their homes and more anger at their own mistreatment. People were in a shitty situation, and they were pissed. They also didn't care about the consequences of their violence (like arrest, or prison), because they weren't expecting much from life anyway.

I've realized only in the past five years or so that I was a bully when I was a little kid. I beat up my elementary school classmates. You have to understand that I grew up with physical abuse. As I mentioned, my father taught me how to fight. He didn't teach me to read books or do math, and I knew that I was making him proud when I beat up the kid next door. Besides this, I was angry about being beat up myself by my father. I was transferring that rage about being mistreated onto these other kids with my fists. You ask how I could be cruel? I didn't realize I was cruel. I thought it was normal behavior. I thought I was good at something - fighting - which was prized in my community, like middle-class kids might be good at soccer.

You may want to read "Townie" by Andre DuBus III. It's a memoir focused on a violent youth by an intelligent, perceptive, now middle-aged man who seeks to understand the forces that motivated his own violence. I found it stunning, growing up like I did.

I actually think it's very hard to grow up male in the kind of culture I've described. I've seen first-hand how difficult it is to let go of the rage in order to allow other feelings in. The rage and violence is self-protective, "masculinity" as a weapon. Those kind of men live their lives in a prison of their own rage, never feeling the full range of human feelings. I know you may not be able to hear this right now, but I consider you better off because you can feel your pain and vulnerability. The irony is that is strength.

 

[KwanYingirl]

I have no evidence not to believe you. Sounds like your teenage years were positive on the family side but negative on the so called friend side. Can you talk to your parents about your feelings? Many teens go off the beam and 'try out' new identities. I'd say you have experienced two lifestyles that don't fill your needs. Leave them behind and go forward with a new outlook. This world is full of worthy people who don't use adolescent behavior to run their life.

Are you in college? Sounds like you need some self esteem well not some, but a lot. Work with your strengths to guide you to a more meaningful life.i went with differing groups in high school but I don't have anything to do with them now. I went away to college where I wasn't judged. You could benefit by working with a therapist. This baggage takes a long Time to unpack.

 

[Glen Myers]

@marylouise I've always more or less thought about it like how you said about them being mad at the world for being abused while growing up I just never believed it because they were the type of people that acted like nobody ever messed with them and they were invincible. I always tried to tell myself that they were abused growing up but at the same time I couldn't believe it because everybody respected them and nobody tried to fight them. but I remember when I went to school with them they had no academic skills whatsoever they just put their head down the whole time and wanted to wait until school ended to do drugs and cause more trouble.

Looking back at it now I have no idea how I didn't see that they were probably horribly abused growing up.I just hate the fact that they tide pretended to accept me while they treated me like shit instead of just telling me that I wasn't really cut out for that lifestyle with words. I never showed any sign of disrespect and I always tried to talk like them in a positive manner about whatever happened to be going on and they would just act annoyed like i was a bother.

Now i know I am a far better person than them. They are getting arrested every other month, addicted to hard drugs, and still live with their parents I doubt they're ever going to do anything productive. They are getting arrested every other month, addicted to hard drugs, and still live with their parents I doubt that ever going to do anything productive with their lives.

 

[The Albatross]

Moderate violence in my neighborhood (lower middle income economically, racially mixed) for me. Physically abused at home as was my mother and she was sexually abused as well (I only had to deal with the emotional and verbal aspect of sexual abuse by my father - no inappropriate touching was where he drew the line). Plenty of violent people in my neighborhood, bullies. I was not punished by my father when I fought to defend someone smaller/younger/or myself. I relate to Mary Louise as I thought it was "normal" to a degree. I was surprised when I was "allowed" to meet other girls families and saw first hand the differences in their households and some of their neighborhoods.

I had to have a "rep"/reputation to survive my neighborhood without peer physical or sexual assault and I got one. My rage came in handy and it was "acceptable" for me to turn it (my zero to 120 mph inner psycho) on when bullies were hurting their siblings, girls in the neighborhood, or the young ones. Under Dog, they called me and I didn't care. That was my rep. Older brothers as much as 4 years older than me were intimidated by me and would fly right if I called them out on their behavior, even if it was their own brother or sister.

As you can imagine, it was a pretty warped perception... but because I was experiencing regular physical abuse in my home and also witnessing some pretty awful stuff my father did to my mother... it was a way for me to unchain the inner beast and let out the rage. It kept me safe til high school. Then I realized I had to change. Not having that outlet led me to cutting for a while, and occasional pot... never enough to be classed as a doper. I coped then by being a "floater"... many associations in quite a few groups, but belonging to none.

I am though a woman, so rather than shame... it was empowering as well as self protecting and protecting those who were unable to do so for themselves.

Great topic.

 

[Glen Myers]

@The Albatross You seem like someone who stood up for themselves and minded their own business, not someone who went around and instigated fights/talked shit to people. People like you are awesome for standing up for weaker/younger people. I guess I want to understand why the BULLIES act they way they do, people like you are quite exceptional. You use the abuse you've endured to protect others. I wish I was a fighter, if I was I would only fight to stand up for people and I would do it vigilantly.

I guess a big part of why i'm mad is because they didn't try to verbally tell me I wasn't cut out for that lifestyle... they just treated me like shit for years and years on end while I was thinking i'd eventually earn their respect through means other than fighting.

Another reason why i'm mad is because I had to WALK damn near two miles to get to their neighborhood almost everyday, hang out and get high in their houses and made all the effort just so they could treat me like shit. All I ever did was try to be part of their group and be respected.

 

[The Albatross]

I don't know what made me different except maybe that I never aligned myself with my father entirely. What he was doing to my mother made that impossible. What witnessing it all did to my sibling, my younger brother and seeing his fear probably cemented it. I was an odd duck and a wild card because I was outside of sexual stereotypical norms for the early to 60's and 70's. I was called all sorts of names by the bully boys and girls in my school and neighborhood... but unless they tried to put a hand on me it bounced off like Teflon.[DOUBLEPOST=1405181951,1405181725][/DOUBLEPOST]P.S. Outside of my neighborhood and once I became a young adult... the "rep" was worthless and I had a hell of a time, because I was not appropriately socialized. I absolutely didn't know how to interact normally with others, attracted abusers and bullies... almost unerringly and it took a whole lot of soul searching, trial and error and some more traumas to figure it out.

I have a rescue foxhound who I learn a lot from because he is so much like I used to be... very instinctual... then he can't figure out where he went wrong and why bad shit happens to him. He is only making eye contact now after 4 years of working with him. I was that way.

 

[The Albatross]

@Glen Myers - there is nothing to feel shame about so far as your own behavior. I would though question what was "in me" to repetitively seek acceptance from a group that scapegoated you.

Ditch/nix that "manly" thing. I am a firm believer that people are their authentic selves... for their own reasons/needs until they "wake up" by self examination or they reap consequences that are unwanted and undesired.

Shame/blame/guilt are optional guy.

 

[Glen Myers]

I wanted to be accepted by them because my whole life I fantasized being a gangster, dressing like people from the hood did, talking like they did and having that image or right to say "Yeah where I grew up was tough", I wanted to be accepted by them so I would get the respect that the tough guys got now, and later when I was older I would be able to talk non chalantly about how I rolled on the streets with bad people and I was a force to be reckoned with. I always admired hearing the older gangsters talk about the shit they did back then calmly like it wasn't a big deal and be almost "humble" about it. Now, no lie, half of them are dead or in jail, the other half pure fiends looking for another hit of their drug of choice. I'm glad I didn't get accepted or else i'd be where they are, i'm not really happy with the PTSD and depression that I gained from it.

My neighborhood was actually just elementary schools and old folks, SOME hooligans but no real trouble like it was in the other neighborhood. I guess I watched to many movies and saw too many unrealistic music videos to actually see what that life is like. I thought the red hoodie, baggy pants and basketball shoes was all I needed and everyone would take my word for it.

 

[The Albatross]

Good solid answer and observations. I think I would re-examine that against your direct personal experience.

A consequence can be one of two things, a flaw/fault or a learning experience. What did you learn that is generally beneficial for you moving forward?

 

[The Albatross]

Why did you choose or decide that emulating the "hood" was "manly"?

 

[jmni]

I sort of had a similar experience. I think that any time you go out of your way to affiliate with someone, or even chose to associate with them, if they mistreat you there is no option but to angry. Of course you'll punish yourself for making bad choices.

But consider that at the time you weren't the person you are now. You probably had other issues in your life or a lack of direction and as a result you did not make the right choice. You're a different man than you were then, so don't hate the current you becuase of things a previous you has done. You were only a kid and you didn't really know better.

It's strange that I have been so angry about some things for a very long time, but at this point I can barely remember what it was I was angry about anymore. You forget this stuff, eventually. The memories fade and it becomes inaccurate and fuzzy. All you can remember is that you didn't like it and you wish it had never happened.

I think that a lot of people, especially males, chose friends that are a lot of talk, who are focused on being macho or tough. It's because they want to feel in control and dominant, because they know at heart that they're not. Ironically they affiliate with other people who have the same complex. The battery and physical threats only makes it worse, becuase then they feel weaker so they adhere even more because it's confirmed their self doubt. It is very disturbing to remember that you associated with people that were willing to hurt you and who acted so psychotic and it makes you wonder what else they were capable of. I hate to be direct but you are punishing yourself for associating with those people because they hurt you, and they could of hurt you even more.

Clearly anyone that needs to prove that their dominant physically (or any other way, sexually, mentally, etc) is someone you don't should have nothing to do with.

It sounds like you were just a kid when this happened. At least in that sense it can almost be expected. Unfortunately adults do it to and it can take place at work, home, and almost any other kind of toxic environment.

I read "Disobedience" by Erich Fromme. It didn't make me feel better, but it did make me think. There are other books out there like "Who's Pulling Your Strings?" that might help you. The worst part of this is, that no matter how much regret we have about the past mistakes, it's so easy to fall into the same pattern again and I know you don't want that.