Study Depression not caused by low serotonin after all

Yes @enough . Egos aside, I heard something interesting once, that doctors for example who are kinesthetic learners often entered hands-on fields like surgery, visual learners areas like radiology (x-ray analysis), and auditory learners (the best listeners of their patients) were usually GI/ Internal Med. So between beliefs, past practices, keeping up with info, bias, and then relationship or relating to the patient there's a lot of variables. At least 3 of us (if not 4) ended up with a genetic disorder not even recognized 20 years ago. They call people with it 'zebras' (rare), but I don't think it's quite as rare as they think, just not recognized. Another brilliant doctor would not approve a drug for my dad's eyes, said he'd seen too much quackery, he got it through a friend in the US, came back in 6 months and the Dr said it's a miracle, halted further progression of what had been spontaneous blindness. They told the truth and the Dr retired, though they said please don't, but he would only do cataracts, said he shouldn't have missed it.
 
I saw a documentary that commented on this : they said the brains of depressed people had unexpectedly more serotonin receptors, they think the body tried to create them to heal itself, but they were faulty. Which might explain why SSRI's help for some but not all.

They also said there are 2 areas of the brain on opposite sides: one is responsible for depression, the other correlated to suicidality. That one is correlated with finding the world too traumatizing, people too harsh, a sense of loneliness even when popular. Which they said is why the reasons for suicide are unique, such as the latter group experiencing bullying more harshly. A person could suffer depression and never try, another could try but not suffer depression. But if both sites were affected it was likely. That 50% is genetic, 50% environmental, and then there is epigenetics (genes altering as a result of trauma or life events or generational trauma).
 

Mmcmmb1997

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SO very true.

And to the point about understanding...it always blows my mind a little that Lithium - something that wasn't created, but instead discovered - there are theories about the mechanism of action, but it's really still (largely) unknown. It really helps certain people with certain disorders...no one knows why...but that doesn't invalidate the alleviation of symptoms. Been in use medically long enough to have real longevity studies, and generally, no damage from long-term use, providing its dosed correctly and monitored well.


Well, it's not a clinical study proving anything - it's a review of the existing body of studies, which points at an interesting conclusion. Nothing to sweep under a rug - just a question of how many doctors read it and decide to re-think their prescribing practices.

I suspect the generation of psychiatrists who are just now beginning their medical degree will have a very different outlook on the serotonin question (by the time they enter practice), compared to docs who trained 10, 20 years ago. Same with psychedelics and their utility for depression, that'll continue to have traction in research for the foreseeable future.


Exactly - that's what's so maddening about it. It's not totally wrong...it's just not saying much of anything, and extremely open to misinterpretation.

I have zero doubts that there's something going on in my brain function that is off. Something missing or disabled, the same way people with color deficient vision (color blindness) are missing certain elements in the cones inside their eyes. That thing is just not there. It's sometimes correctable through the introduction of external aids, but not yet correctible with surgery or medication (when it's a genetic deficiency).

That's my depression. It's been with me for far too long, and there's so much mental illness in my immediate family (referred to as 'genetic load') - it'd be unrealistic for me to think it could be entirely addressed by cognitive work, IMO.

Doesn't mean that cognitive work isn't going to be....who knows? Half the solution? 90% the solution? 5%? I. Just. Don't. Know.

All I know is, it's really f*cking hard. Especially because what I really believe I know, from being inside my depression - can't yet be medically 'proven' with any scientific measure. It's really terrible to live with this, do so much learning and research, try so many pills, so many therapeutic modalities....and keep coming back to just waiting for more research. Hoping for a scientific diagnostic process. I'm not sure I even understand why that remains so important to me, when I'm sure enough about it myself. Validation, I guess. Legitimacy.

Anyway. This topic hit a nerve for me, I guess. Not in a bad way.
I feel exact same. I’m 42 years old now. My mom dad and grandma were mentally ill before they died while I grew up. I have had depression for as long as I can remember being alive. I remember watching tv at 4 years old thinking about the painful feelings in my chest. I do have C-PTSD with a traumatic upbringing, so it’s confusing. Is my depression genetic, biological or caused by my trauma? Or all 3? I know that when I go very low-carb like a keto diet my depression gets way worse, and I know that it’s harder to make serotonin when you don’t eat a lot of carbs so serotonin has something to do with it I just don’t know how. medication‘s haven't worked for me. But honestly, I haven’t stayed on them for more than a few months because of the side effects. 5Htp works but only for a few days then stops working. I cut out refined sugar and grains and that actually worked as well for a while but now it stopped working so I don’t know there’s just so many factors..
 
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