Do We Ever Get To Stop Dealing With Trauma In Therapy?

[Movingforward10]

This is a really interesting debate. And I can only relate by thinking about myself so sorry this post becomes a 'me' thing as opposed to a general debate. (and is this all taking away from the OP?).
I'm someone who clings on to therapy and my therapist. But I would also say I am someone who works hard (I think, but then that's all relative too). And, for me, it's a combination of that attachment to my T, that relational element that lets me manage the CBT aspects of it. The CBT aspects are more easily defined in seeing progress. The more practical steps where it's easier to see direct results.
The relational healing is not so easily defined.
So for me, it's how do you measure progress, committment, honesty etc.

Unless I'm missing a trick and not using the CBT techniques in relationship with T. But I can't see how that CBT aspect fits in with relational trauma as easily/helpfully as it does with things like thought stopping, managing triggers, etc.

Going back to the OP's post: sounds like CBT techniques are what is needed. And practising and practising them.

 

[anthony]

This is a really interesting debate.

Sorry... I'm honestly not trying to debate anything in this thread. Just talking, nothing more or less from me.

People need to stop thinking about CBT like some special thing. Its not. Every day talking, what we're all doing here, is CBT. CBT is about removing irrational for rational. Not right vs wrong. Trauma, regardless how you define it, cause and effect. Trauma is the cause, and the effect is distorted cognition. Nothing more. The effect is what needs to be fixed. We're born with distortions, raised with them, we develop them from our lifestyle, environment and personal interactions. Anyone who drives and is frustrated by what another motorist is doing. We are surrounded, all causing us distortions. Not positive vs negative thinking. Just distortion. Negative thinking styles are a bit more stubborn and fixed.

Live, die. distorted thoughts that cause us conflict. Some more than others. Some negatively affect our day to day functioning, some are fleeting thoughts that pass us by within moments.

Honestly, when you look deep, it scares the shit out me, so the easy path is to ignore some things that cause that feeling. But does that solve a problem for me? Or just cause another problem? Choices. Suffering. Recovery.

 

[Tinyflame]

I too wonder if this is helpful to @EveHarrington .

Agree that what is simplest is most complex. But you have to do it, apply it, go through the discomfort.

I heard someone say yesterday it's simply human nature to think we are right. I find myself less prone to having confidence I'm correct in my thoughts or opinions, but even if I cannot accept another's I am somewhere feeling I don't think they have given enough evidence for my heart and mind to believe them, either. So I'm thinking I am right or we are both wrong?

But I will say, JMHE, I can recall working on one program and I did 4 steps of it in about 4 days. Years later I redid it and did 1 step in about 1 month. So I think it's not always the wrong suggestion(s) as it may be the effort, patience, honesty and application (which can be brutal) over and over again. Like exposure therapy, I know I want to do things fast, for myself or even the dog. But it doesn't work out so well if I try to do it that way. My approach is not realistic because I have to master it and then keep trying to apply and master it. Same with CBT/ DBT/ life. JMHO though. I can stand a lot of work and though I think I have grown some (some big ways, some small) things can set me back immensely. And the onion analogy applies, as well as probably courage and taking a bit of an observer's approach.

 

[Adobe]

Lastly, look at VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Well my being off the forum did not last long. I love my life here. I still hold to CBT as my drug of choice. The wheel is amazing and it takes me a little time to reframe things. Had a very ,very bad yesterday and it felt like a broken heart. I was traumatized just by being there. I was stunned and paralyzed. By evening I had done the feelings wheel several time and journaled several time. Did not sleep very much. Put up my boundaries where I never thought I would have to put them…..this sounds so victimish!….. but this afternoon I am calm, at peace, haven’t moved beyond my assessment intellectually , have not quickly forgiven, as there is no need to. I am in a good place and things are unresolved. Shocked at how quickly I could reframe this. Things are the same but I am not. I detached. This reframing…. I should have been an architect!

 

[Adobe]

This is a really interesting debate. And I can only relate by thinking about myself so sorry this post becomes a 'me' thing as opposed to a general debate. (and is this all taking away from the OP?).
I'm someone who clings on to therapy and my therapist. But I would also say I am someone who works hard (I think, but then that's all relative too). And, for me, it's a combination of that attachment to my T, that relational element that lets me manage the CBT aspects of it. The CBT aspects are more easily defined in seeing progress. The more practical steps where it's easier to see direct results.
The relational healing is not so easily defined.
So for me, it's how do you measure progress, committment, honesty etc.

Unless I'm missing a trick and not using the CBT techniques in relationship with T. But I can't see how that CBT aspect fits in with relational trauma as easily/helpfully as it does with things like thought stopping, managing triggers, etc.

Going back to the OP's post: sounds like CBT techniques are what is needed. And practising and practising them.

We really are. But we’ve become / are becoming more and more a very “Raise your hand and ask for help.” kind of society.

- Kids are “supposed” to ask a grownup / get a teacher, rather than learning to solve their own problems.

- Grownups, meanwhile, are “supposed” to ask someone in “authority” to handle their problems for them. (Trevor Noah has a hilarious bit about the difference between US 911 & South African “911” that speaks directly to that. Ha. Okay. Totally worth it to go fetch the link.) As well as to get someone in “authority” to validate pretty much every single step of our lives. Which isn’t entirely a bad thing, I want a certified electrician wiring my house, rather than a meth head named Sparky, doctors with mad skills, engineers whose buildings don’t fall down, in short? The best man for the job. Just like everyone else. But other countries have similar or higher requirements of professionals without individuals becoming spineless litigious whingers, wringing their hands -or filming for likes- and waiting for someone else to do something. So IDK.

Not going to touch on “why” this cultural shift of learned helplessness has happened over the last century or so. Because THAT would be someone’s thousand page graduate thesis, and still prolly be incomplete. But it’s very much a thing, more and more ignoring regional boundaries & individual differences, and becoming part of our national identity.

I think many ,many people have not been taught critical thinking skills…many in this new generation in the US. I also think many in the US have low Emotional IQ. This seems harsh but home and school pamper, brainwash, propagandize, and more. There is no longer a moral plum line. That will make some people angry. But much of our trauma centers around that issue whether from others or self defeating choices. This is the human condition and it is now a real issue here in the US. I think we have lost the compass of a conscience ,that is to be educated.
I am so grateful for Anthony’s insight. It is not because he is seeing from the outside into the US. He has been using the skills I have mentioned. Also, I think saying I am needy and need another human to fix me is unwise thinking. No one can do you like you. No one a fix you but you and me. It is hard work but since I have been on this path for a year I am becoming an athlete to run this race.

 

[Tinyflame]

I sometimes think it helps me to intellectualize more but more often other times to intellectualize less and let myself feel more.

 

[grit2023]

knowledge and doing. That is the magic trick to recovery for PTSD/CPTSD.

I echoed the words above, but language is fickle. I believe that 'knowledge' corresponds to the cognitive aspect (what we often learn in therapy as coping), while doing pertains to the affect/feelings involving muscle movement (also known as behavior and language) - what we do all the time.

In various situations using my senses, I respond based on my feelings and physiological states bodily talk tightness, tension, flush feelings, which are influenced and tempered by the environment (guided by my thinking/cognition) like is what I hear or see and my body reactions congruent? This process repeats until it becomes automatic to a certain extent, or until it stops working because something changed. To me, this is why CBT seems top to bottom work, as feelings and physiological states are faster and more profound because they are bottom up, exerting more control over cognition, unless one becomes aware of both and how it works for each person!

Before I recognized my way. I was overusing my cognition to drive the feelings....literally trauma driven. I was exhausted, burned out, and needed so much recovery time!

For example, a coworker said something the other day, and I felt a sense of 'scolding' in my gut (tightness and flush). I utilized my cognition to recognize and control the impulse to react to her, so I listened to both my body and her words (observing). Eventually, I realized that my reaction was triggered by deep-seated trauma - literally too deep in the gut, and her actions served as a reminder. However, upon further thought, I understood that her position didn't hold power over me (the trauma), as we are equals and colleagues. Consequently, I did not need to react in the manner I initially felt inclined to do so. In fact this experience improved my relationship with her. Her tone was rubbing me the wrong way!

If I was at home with my husband, I would speak a bit more freely because the environment is safer but at work I am more discerned though not as slow as I used to be.

Hope this makes sense.